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Daemon Prince with Wings = Deepstrike?

4K views 15 replies 9 participants last post by  Intrepid 
#1 ·
(I did a search on the forum and found nothing, so if this thread has been started
earlier, I couldn't find it.)

After reading the description in the 40k rulebook regarding Monstrous Creatures and
Jump Infantry, and the description in the Chaos Codex regarding Wings, one can only
conclude that a Daemon Prince with Wings can Deepstrike (when this is allowed, ofcourse).

Am I right or do I miss something?
 
#2 ·
It's not that you've missed something, it's that you're putting something where it doesn't exist.

Jump infantry cannot by definition deep strike, nor can monstrous creatures. So unless the specific unit rules (in this case daemon prince) say they can deep strike, they cannot. You'll have to deploy him with the rest of the army, or leave it in reserves and have it come on from a table edge in escalation.

Any jump infantry that actually IS allowed to deep strike specifically says that in their unit list.
 
#3 ·
Mmm, I thought I made it clear that I read all the appropriate articles.

Let me quote from the Chaos Codex, page 85, Wings:
"In addition, models that have wings can be dropped from low-flying gunships, They can
be kept in reserve and arrive using the Deep Strike rules."
 
#5 ·
No problem, I actually WAS searching for something which stated that it wasn't possible.

But it seems, after all, that it is.
 
#6 ·
Yup, in the main book, there's nothing that specifically allows jump infantry to deep strike (although I've heard rumors that 5th edition will include that). But if anything with wings can, than winged daemon princes definitely have that capability.
 
#7 ·
I think the big confusion was that the only other MC that could have wings are Tyranid, that do not get to deep strike. I'm sure GW meant for that ruling to apply only to basic infantry such as lords, but the rule is there so use it when you want to. I'd say it's risky to loose your Prince through deepstrike, but considering how far he can move and then assault, it's probably not a huge deal.

(Oh I miss the days of the 24" charge range they used to have)
 
#8 ·
After reading the codex again, I didn't get the impression that allowing princes to d.s. is an oversight on the part of G.W. It's rather straight forward, and there are no twists or turns or hidden inferences that suggest otherwise.

24" Charge? You can still get this with a lash sorcerer or prince in flight. :)
 
#11 ·
I guess Deep Striking a Winged Prince would be more for fluff purposes or fear tactics (Night Lords, you guys score a double whammy here). Black Legion commanders could do something along these lines trying to mimic the old codex "Tear Out the Throat" approach which has been intelligently removed by GW (thanks for the killing the one bit of flavorful stuffs BL players had to work with)

/RANT (my bad:D)
 
#14 ·
The reasons I want to deepstrike my Prince is:

- Building tension against my enemy (when/where is that DP coming?)
- With wings, being able to deepstrike behind cover and then fly over to assault
- Bring attention to the table by presenting yet another target half way through the game
 
#15 ·
I gotta say, Kantoken, that I find all of those unconvincing reasons for deep striking. Let's look at them:

1.) Building tension? Why would it do that, and what would it matter even if it did?

Look at it this way. At any given point, any good player will know exactly where he doesn't want that Daemon Prince to come in. It should be pretty clear what the best spots for deep-strikes are. It's not really all that different from just knowing where the Daemon Prince actually is.

And, while you could deepstrike into a worse spot, it's never going to be worth it just for the surprise value. If you're up against a reasonably competent player, you'll either deepstrike right about where he expects you to, or you'll deepstrike somewhere that's better for him.

To put it another way, good players will prepare for the worst. Given that, any surprise willl be a good surprise. Moreover, they'll know that, and that pretty much shoots any tension-building in the foot.

Even were it otherwise, expecting someone to make a mistake due to tension is almost always a mistake in and of itself. They might, but you shouldn't count on it. In fact, it's basically a bad idea to make an otherwise-worse move for the sake of building tension, and deepstriking a DP is, otherwise, worse than starting him on the table. (as Rabbit pointed out)


2.) With wings, you can just fly to the cover, then assault over it. In fact, wings will let you get behind cover far more reliably than deep-striking, since you don't scatter. Deepstriking behind cover requires getting lucky. Moving there normally doesn't. Moving is pretty much better.

3.) If it's good to present a new target half-way through the game, it's better still to have that target presented all the way through the game. On the other hand, you basically don't want your DP to get shot at at all, so never presenting it as a target is even better still. This, too, seems like it just fails to be a good reason to deep-strike


As Rabbit said, a Prince which deepstrikes can't possibly assault till turn three--at best--and there are all sorts of die rolls that can go wrong which could delay him further. When he deep-strikes, there's no way to reliably keep him hidden.

When he starts on the table, he'll reliably assault by turn two. He might even assault on turn one. A Daemon Prince who hasn't assaulted by the end of the third turn (the first turn a DS prince could possibly assault) is just being played poorly.

No, while the prince can deepstrike, it's just not a good idea very often. I could see it being a good idea on occasion, or during an escalation mission where he has to be in reserve anyway, but, in general, it's just not a big deal because it's not a very good move.
 
#16 ·
I would not deepstrike my Prince, either. Not only are DPs best in assault, they need it to be safe. They have the lowest base toughness of any Monstrous Creature in 40k and die depressingly quickly to rapidfiring bolters, even lasguns!

Some armies can use deepstrike to make suicide strikes--drop troop Guard, solo Tau XV8s. Others do it to compensate for movement, such as a Necron player deepstriking a Flayed Ones squad to take an objective and keep himself from phaseout. Chaos, however, is fast enough we don't need to deepstrike and our CC proficiency means we're on the back foot when we do it anyway.

Building tension against my enemy (when/where is that DP coming?)
How about lesser daemons instead? Knowing that any one of your CSM squads is about to double in model count may force him to play more defensively with relatively little points investment on your part.
 
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