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Ctan and Psychic Tests

1K views 15 replies 10 participants last post by  grantneodude 
#1 ·
In one Apocalypse game i played, I had a Necron Ctan Nightbringer for the first time in order to help make up points. We played against a CSM / IG combo (mostly CSM the IG was just Yarricks Tank Brigade, which was a pain, but nothing I couldn't handle).

Now one of the CSM players is a massive fan of the Lash Of Cheese, his tactical ability been somewhat substandard as a result. Now for a couple of turns before I made it personal and shot his cowardly sorceror through the face he was using his Lash of Cheese to make my Ctan move back.

Now surely this is complete rubbish. I can't find a rule that specifically states that the last cannot work on Ctans as the Necron book doesnt say its immune to psychic tests. But seriously a 25pt power making a 360pt God useless for several turns?? Come on, I know the Lash is overpowered and noobish but 25pt to 360pt, if it can affect the Ctan thats just plain rediculous.

Thankfully justice was served to the good guys by our Necrons taking the victory at the end by miles (Monolith Phalanx, supported by large amounts of warriors with a few destroyers, lots of Tomb Spyders for support and plenty of scarabs applying a heavy flank march - our tactics were sorted), but I thought I'd get this point clarified, because the Lash of Cheese needs a downside somewhere!

"I am the god of death"
"Move back 6 inches"
"Yes Master"

Give me a break!!
 
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#2 ·
I too have found this extremely overpowered and the fact is I play Chaos Daemons occasionaly. They have a similar power but it only moves people D6. As far as I have found the only things immune to it are Gargantuan creatures and Super-Heavies and they specifically state they are immune to all psychic powers that have no strength value.

I'm personally hoping for an update to the Lash when they get their fifth ed. codex in the next year or so, because as it is I completely agree with your claim name of Lash of Cheese.
 
#3 ·
I'm personally hoping for an update to the Lash when they get their fifth ed. codex in the next year or so
CSM won't get a new codex for about another 3-4 years. Their latest codex was released around a year ago, if that.
 
#4 ·
If thats the case, no wonder the Lash is regarded as the ultimate in overpowered cheese. Even CSM players think so. It won't surprise you to know that my CSM player in question defends it to the hilt thinking its not powerful nor underpriced.............like I said hes a noob! :p

There should at least be an FAQ somewhere that states "CTAN IMMUNE TO PSYHIC POWERS" they are gods for gods sake! :p
 
#5 ·
There should at least be an FAQ somewhere that states "CTAN IMMUNE TO PSYHIC POWERS" they are gods for gods sake! :p
Ok, there's the possiblity of me showing extreme ignorance here, so hopefully I can both rectify that and help move this discussion along.

I'm not too knowledgeable about the 40K fluff, I've only ever read the Necron codex in detail, but my impression was that the C'tan are allergic to Warp energies, and consequently would be vulnerable to psychic energies. As I said I might be mistaken here, but I've always thought psychic powers used Warp energy in some way.

And if the above is actually correct it'd mean that the C'tan would in no way have any protection from psychic powers. If anything, such powers would affect them even more.

And, uhh... yeah, I would welcome any corrections to this, as I'm really not sure if I've got things right.
 
#8 ·
The Lash of Cheese = take a psychic test (which is LD 10 so practically no chance to fail). If successful any unit (ANY yes ANY) within 24 inches moves 2D6 inches in whichever direction you choose.

Now at first this seems more annoying than downright broken (even though for 25points that is a rediculous bargain), but the opponent gets to choose HOW your guys move. Therefore he is allowed to bunch all your guys up as if they just deep striked so that any template weapon (say the noise marine blaster or a defiler cannon) can obliterate the entire squad with a single hit with now chances of retaliation whatsoever. The FAQ confirmed this is fine, which is downright broken. 25 points kills 200 point units. Forget the cost of any other weapon its not like it can't be used elsewhere. Broken like mad! But gods been susceptible to Lash, thats just madness!
 
#10 ·
A little lesson for you all.

DON'T PANIC.

It's never worth panicking. There's always ways out of it.
While you might want to try to campaign against with GW directly, pracitcally speaking, there are lots of other things you can do.

Firstly, read the Chaos codex and realise that Lash can and can't do.

- With a normal FOC, the Chaos player can only move 2 units a turn.
- He needs LoS
- He can't use any other psychic abilities that turn

Secondly, think about your own list and how you can 'nerf' it.

Psychic tests require a leadership test.
I seem to remember a necron unit that was very good at playing with leadership tests. One that's coming back into the game a bit more thanks to the new 'jogging' rules.

Be prepared for 2 units to be moved every turn and plan accordingly. Don't give the Chaos player an option.

Sure, he can move your deceiver, because in your turn your destroyers are going to shoot him back to hell.

etc etc.

Don't panic, and think lucidly about practical ways out of this.

Karmoon.
 
#11 ·
Certain powers and abilities are really absurd I agree. However until the new chaos dex all the non CSM players are gonna just have to deal with it. You should hear my roomate bellyache about resorbs and WBB (even though he's never actually played against my crons)

I've seen a single cannoness which costed just as much as a lash prince wipe out a chaos dread, 10 Tsons and a 10 man chaos marine squad all in assault. Nobody cried cheese, but it was a 145pt model taking out in the realms of 600pts, completely alone in three turns. And to my understanding this is something that happens regularly.

Chaos lash admitedly gives a huge advantage as far as positioning but for it to be really effective it seems the chaos player using it needs to have more than just a 135pt DP, that defiler and it's battlecannon aren't free ya know, and it isn't very good at hitting it's target either. That's almost 300 pts to try and kill a 200pt unit.

If you're sick of chaos yanking your chain, fight fire with fire and swap Death for Trickery. Kill his daemonprince with Deceive. It causes wounds on fearless units that fail their save.
 
#12 ·
So you're right we pay 300 points to get this ability, and they pay 25pts. Sounds like I would just focus fire with those destroyers...you're talking 36" range....problem solved? Also deep strike that lith on him, like usual! :)

But I'll agree, I can't wait to see the deceiver reduced to say 150-200points? LoL...
 
#13 ·
The Deceiver is actually pretty underpriced for what he does. He may not make his points back very often, but every once in a while he'll single handedly kill ~800 points or so. And also his ability to change the entire dynamic of the game is priceless. That flying hive tyrant of doom will have to think twice about charging headlong into your lines, as will just about everything else.


And farmergiles, seriously, enough whining about lash. I think everyone here and even people that don't read librarium or even play 40k know your feelings on it by now.
 
#15 · (Edited)
It should be noted that the Lash 'o Cheese is not an unstoppable "I win" button for the Chaos player. In truth, there is no such thing. What we have here is an easy-to-acquire and easy-to-deploy unit that forces the opponent to employ methods that are not easy or necessarily cheap in order to counter it. Hardly the same thing. Yeah, it makes things easy for him and hard for you, but it's only "hard." I didn't say "impossible." It's just gonna take more work for you than it will for him.

Unfair? Perhaps. I'll agree with farmergiles on that one. Course, before you draft your letter of protest to GW I might point out the scores of players I've run into and read posts from, since I started playing necrons, who make the exact same complaints about a five-man destroyer squad, WBB(LOADS of griping about that one!), VoD-equipped lord + 10 immortals, the monolith, C'Tan, etc.

Cheese also hurts the player using it more than he realizes. Any Chaos player who relies exclusively on the lash to win games will learn nothing about how to play well. You, on the other hand, will learn quite a bit more about your capabilities on the battlefield each and every time you figure out how to thwart that "unstoppable" weapon of his. Might even convince him that it's not the uber-killer he thinks it is.

Giles himself proves it's possible when he notes that in the game he's talking about, the necrons won anyway. Couldn't have been THAT much of a handicap, eh?

In short, every army has potential for cheese. The bad players exploit it in their own armies, and complain about their opponents doing the same thing. The good players know cheese is the tool of the unimaginative, don't use it, and hatch complex tactical plans to defeat it in all its forms, thus becoming better all-around players in the process.

Which do you want to be?
 
#16 ·
The way I finally decided to deal with Lash was realatively easy once I changed to my 'Nids. Little something calle Psychic Scream. Run it on my zoa's and tyrants and suddenly that psychic test istn't so easy anymore when he's testing at a potential Ld of 5! I have yet to find a way to combat it with Chaos Daemons but I'm working on it.
 
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