Librarium Online Forums banner

Sponsons - still worth it?

940 views 18 replies 16 participants last post by  Zeewulf 
#1 ·
Okay, with the new 5th ed rules, defensive weapons are down to 4 or less strength. Which means that where, in previous editions there was no reason not to take a hull-mounted heavy bolter with heavy bolter sponsons (unless it was a demolisher), now I don't know...

Now, it's better for the Battle Canon (since it can be fired and move up to 6" in a turn), but if I want to fire all of those HBs on my Leman Russ, I can't move at all.

So, people's opinions: is it better to keep mobility and keep moving (allowing better targeting against units, 4+ to hit in assault, etc) or to stay still and fire off 9 Str 5 AP 4 shots?

EDIT: Oh, and I should also mention, that I'm asking from the perspective of an Armored Company player in 2,500pt or so games.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I still use Heavy Bolter side sponsons on my Demolishers and Russes because: A. Sometimes it's better to open up with Heavy Bolters against:
- Units with a large footprint, such as Terminators and Crisis Suits, your blast, after scatter, is probably going to cover 2 dudes, 3 if you're lucky, whereas your Heavy Bolter wounds have to be allocated to the entire unit.
- Light Vehicles and Light Vehicle squadrons, such as: Piranhas, Sentinels, Land Speeders, Space Marine/Eldar Jetbikes, and Dark Eldar Raiders because again your blast isn't going to cover the entire unit, or is going to miss completely, and Heavy Bolters can do a number against Bikes and AV10.
- Tyranid monstrous creatures because you're not going to insta-kill them, so with your Battle/Demoliser Cannon you're only inflicting 1 wound, with Heavy Bolters you can potentially inflict 9 wounds

And the B reason why I still take Sponsons is because now the opponent chooses what weapon is destroyed if they roll that result on the damage table and the first one they're going to remove is the Battle/Demolisher cannon and then you're dead in the water, but with Heavy Bolters you can still cause huge amounts of havoc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cadaver Junkie
#4 ·
I'd say, add what you can if you have the points.

Additional weapons means that if/when you lose your battle cannon or lascannon to a 'weapon destroyed' result, you still have something to shoot with.

Additional weapons means that if/when you get immobilized you can become a Heavy Bolter Bunker and shoot all your weapons.

In other words, I don't think that it is totally wasted points if you add the sponsons.

At some point you may have to just experiment and arm different squadrons different ways and see how things work out.

Good luck,
Jon
 
#5 ·
I am of the mind that for additional weapons, go either with a Lascannon and no sponsons, or three heavy bolters. I myself have all of my Battlecannon-armed tanks equipped with three heavy bolters. My Vanquisher and Demolisher both have lascannons, and the Demolisher plasma cannons too.

My reasoning is this: a Leman Russ without a battlecannon and only a single hull weapon is pretty much 145-155pts wasted. By 'gambling' with an additional ten points for those three heavy bolters, it's all of a sudden not a wasted unit if the battlecannon gets destroyed. The difference if the tank itself is destroyed is only 10 more points. I'd rather have those two HBs than a plasma gun in a command squad or something. Three heavy bolters can even force saves on Marines, not to mention annihilate Tyranids and Orks. In 4th, I'd often rather fire heavy bolters into hordes instead of the BC - but now with no partials I'm finding the BC is better haha.
 
#7 ·
Ok, so the general feeling is this:

Either go 3 HB or 1 Lascannon.

Personally, I detest Lascannons for IG vehicles. BS 3 and single shot weapons don't go well together in my book. That said, they might be a good investment for the Demolishers, since they a) give them a bit more range and b) give them more heavy-duty weapons.

Thanks for the quick answers. I think I know what my army list is going to look like now (pop over to that forum if you want to help me there).
 
#9 ·
im guna buck the trend and put in a word for the heavy flamer when my main gun is down i charge forward and death or glory as much as possible and ram tanks:dance:.
but heavy flamers help this as if the enemy jump out the way i heavy-flame them or if i do the hide behind infantry tactic i flame any flank marchers who are eyeing up my battle. line pluss its cheap!!!
 
#10 ·
I put plasma sponsons and a heavy bolter on my demolisher. I really like it, the plasma is great for killing some marines or termies on the way over there, and unless they're tightly packed then 2 plasma cannons and a heavy bolter will do more damage to stuff than the single demolisher cannon.
 
#11 · (Edited)
The answer depends of the tank and the army list.

1 - The tank:

LRBTs dont really need it for be lethal, like others say, is just a backup gun. But if take the points of others weapons that dont are back ups, then is a luxury.

Demolisher have more use for them, because provide mid range weapons and really complement the main weapon.

2 - The army:

A common company have more than enough antipersonel weapons and cannon fodder for stop infatry assault in short range.

An armoured company lack enough infatry, so maybe you need to have more close range anti-personel weapons.

In the context of the army as an organic unit: There is a minimun safety range for fire an ordenance weapon. The scatter rule make dangerous fire under 12". In a standar company our infantry take care of close range dangers with rapid firing lasguns and special weapons. But an armoured company need HBs sponsons and Heavy Stubbers for minimize these weakness of the ordenance weapons. Same idea for the hull mounted lascannon, but for vehicles like walkers with CCWs or heavy infatry (ie. terminators).
 
#12 ·
I still think that paying for sponsors has some worth since glancing hits can only immobilise or destroy weapons. Obviously, if a weapon destroyed gets scored, it'll be the cannon that get taken off. I you only have that and the hull weapon, the tank doesn't have much to go on afterwards.

Sure, you can tankshock but I hardly think you'll be getting your points back by this mean.
 
#13 ·
i used to go 3x hv bolter on one russ, and none on the other(one was close support, the other followed from farther away) but now i think ill be swapping my 3x heavy bolters, for a hull lascannon.
 
#14 ·
Really? I just tried out a small 1k mordian iron guard force the other day with a couple of armies, with no input from you guys thanks to nobody replying on my quasi list idea, but nvm,

And the major problem was tanks, not hordes! I mean, we have hundreds of flashlights, command flamer squads, heavy weapons teams and the ordance weapons of the russ to name a few. Really its armour thats the headache, due to expensive lascannons that hit only half the time being our only safe option. Sponson HBs are rather redundant unless your army is totally geared up with lascannons, in which case I dont even know where your getting the points for the sponsons.

After all, whats the point of making an already massive points drain such as the russ even more expensive by adding sponsons and hull options. Nine heavy bolter shots is impressive dont get me wrong, but its nine heavy bolter shots on a tank with an ordnace weapon that your probably going to be using unless your tank is dead stationary the whole game, in which case your opponent is not going to send light skimmers or medium troops over there to get slaughtered, unless hes blind or retarded.

In short its better to risk a cheap tank (which main weapon doesnt really on BS) becoming useless then make a russ expensive and then have it blown up by a single bright lance shot and still be useless and a points drain.
 
#15 ·
I still love sponsons.

And I still use the hull las cannon and the heavy bolter sponsons on LRBT's. Sure it's a tiny bit more expensive, but by using both you still have an all-rounder tank even if you lose the battle cannon. I'm not saying it's ideal, not by a long shot, but it can make all the difference and it has for me in the past.
 
#16 ·
I'm going to have to go with thechaplain here; While it may eat points, the lascannon/hb combos are still useful to round out the tank. Also, the point of the extra weapons serving as 'ablative armor' for weapon destroyed results is good, too.
And as for not earning back points tank-shocking?
Why tank shock, when you can pick out the nearest vehicle and RAM!
 
#18 ·
Tank Shocking?

Really if your down to that...itsa lost case already. Seeing as most tanks your facing in tournies are going to be facing are hammerheads and falcons anyway. Or Liths and Raiders, which wont give you a chance to ram them.

It comes down to points available really. If im running a 2k game and have two russes, then sure ill equip them with heavy bolters. But in anything smaller the opponent will just avoid the heavy bolters and ill be firing the bcannon anyway. Really it shoudlnt be a good idea for your russ to be even with heavy bolter range of the opponent-firing from max distance with the cannon from an obscured position is the option that, over the course of the game, is going to hurt and annoy the opponent alot more.

Of course, you might as well get a basi if your doing that, but I dislike the model.
 
#19 ·
Of course, you might as well get a basi if your doing that, but I dislike the model.
Heretic! Respect the glory of the Basilisk!

Of course, I'm approaching this from a hobby-player, not a tourney-player point of view. Nothing like shouting "HONOR IN DEATH!" and charging a group, which you know has no business charging, straight into hand to hand. Why do I do it? Because its fun and it throws the other guy off.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top