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Do you use poison blades?

1K views 17 replies 10 participants last post by  Krovin-Rezh 
#1 ·
Hi
Just got curious as DE players seem to be endlessly debating between agonisers and punishers but I only ever rarely hear anyone mention poison blades. While they might be something of a poor cousin in a couple of respects they're also a lot cheaper and in my experience can still add a nice bit of CC bite; I often give them to sybarites if I'm a bit tight on points.
Wondering if you guys ever use them and if so in what context?
Cheers
 
#2 ·
Poison blades are great against high T models with weak armor saves or invulnerable saves only, far better than either punishers or agonizers in fact. However, that kind of enemies are kind of rare in the world of 40k, and thus the weapon is often times ignored.

Personally I wouldnt get a poison blade sybarite as I feel that his number of attacks with it is kind of weak, but I use scissorhands all the time on my heamies, where they actually do a good job at mopping up survivors of their destructor blasts.
 
#3 ·
Poison blades are great against high T models with weak armor saves or invulnerable saves only, far better than either punishers or agonizers in fact. However, that kind of enemies are kind of rare in the world of 40k, and thus the weapon is often times ignored.
Like Chaos Demons?
 
#6 ·
I use them more now than before. I will run usually 2 large warrior foot squads with lances. I have added a sybarite to them with poison blades as I have found now that sitting them in cover on your side of the table no longer means that they are not going to get charged - quite the opposite now.

With the large amount of bodies and a sybarite with p-blades I can usually "tarpit" the attacker and still add a little "sting". A number of times this setup has allowed my warrior squad to survive a turn or two until a counter-charger has arrived. The blades ensure that I get a wound in there along with 15 other attacks from the squad. They have on occasion even beat off 10 Lesser Daemons, stalled CSM's and even Death Guard, Death Co. until help arrived.

Where I would not use them would be:

Warrior Squads of 10 or less
Raider squads of any kind
Wyches of any kind
or Lords other than the Haemys.

So in essence, 5th has mutated the "sniper squad" into a 16+ squad with a sybarite with p-blades because the enemy is now faster and any army with infiltrators or scouts (especially if they use "outflanking") means they can reach any squad you put on the table. Its "open season" on troops so no one can really hide from shooting or assault now.
 
#8 ·
Kwi has summed this up pretty well, in my opinion, as well as everyone else.
In Raider Rush lists, Poisoned Blades is not the best, as you would want rather more specialist weaponry with you, so you can employ a sort of 'Kill Now and Ask Questions Later' sort of approach.
With Blades, there is still the chance that the enemy will strike back at you harder than before, and so only those who can use them with above average stats, should take them.
The best model by far that makes the most of Poisoned Blades (or in this case a Scissorhand) is a Haemonculus, especially if you put him on a Jetbike. Strike one enemy down, and buy the time they hit the ground cold dead, the Haemie will have struck another down on the opposite flank of the enemy force.
Really, only go for Poisoned Blades, if you already have enough specialists, and you have only a few points to boot. But load out with Scissorhands on the Haemy, and you won't go far wrong.
It is such a shame that Urine Rakarth only comes equipped with Poisoned Blades...

Fly High!
 
#9 ·
Has anyone factored in the re-roll for failed wounds if the attackers strength is higher than the defenders toughness? (Page 42 BRB Poison Weapons.)

So since any model who can take Poison is going to be S3 (Except a Reaver Succubus or one on drugs with +1 S) you aren’t going to gain much here.

Cheers.
 
#10 ·
Has anyone factored in the re-roll for failed wounds if the attackers strength is higher than the defenders toughness? (Page 42 BRB Poison Weapons.)
A Haemonculus on a Jetbike is the best option for Poisoned Weapons. With Drugs, it just makes it that much more interesting. If you are lucky enough, S6 hits!
But I am a little unsure about what you are saying here Wicky. You are probably spot on with this, but I have heard that our Poisoned Blades and Scissorhands are NOT treated as Poisoned Weapons. Someone at GW said so. It puts doubt in me otherwise it would state in the Codex under the Poisoned Blades info that 'They are treated as Poisoned Weapons, as described in the 40,000 rulebook'.
Just a headsup!

Fly High!
 
#12 ·
Hey
I am with you all the way on this one Wicky. I told the guy otherwise, but it was plaguing my mind. Just wanted to make sure!
Now we have more of a reason to put a Haemie on a Jetbike and give him Combat Drugs...

Fly High!
 
#13 ·
Yes, I have thought about this a great deal and to me its no more wrong than accepting the new rule of BS6 for our Archon or Vect.

But I will say this, I think that the points cost will increase once our new Dex comes out, but for now its one of the pluses that balances out the minuses.

Cheers.
 
#14 ·
Poison blades != Poison Weapons

They don't say that they are and hence they are not.
They have a specific rules set and do not go past this set.
To say other wise would be akin to saying that IG priests are the same as WH Priests which are obviously not the case (even though they have the same name and fight in the same army) or that grotesques get FNP from the rule book and not (or perhaps as well) as their codex form of the rule as it did not exist before.

Also to allow it for poison blades but not an agoniser seems a limited view on it to me. For in order to take the re-roll with scissor hands you are taking in to account the 2+ rule as a sort of bonus rule on top of the BRB ruleset. I don't see a differentiation between doing this and doing the same thing for the agoniser, poison weapon with a bonus way of taking out a vehicle.
(also nurgle weapons can have a bonus that enables them to ignore armour saves, just thought i'd throw that in for good measure)
 
#16 ·
Poison blades != Poison Weapons

They don't say that they are and hence they are not.
They have a specific rules set and do not go past this set.
To say other wise would be akin to saying that IG priests are the same as WH Priests which are obviously not the case (even though they have the same name and fight in the same army) or that grotesques get FNP from the rule book and not (or perhaps as well) as their codex form of the rule as it did not exist before.
i was just listening to some early episodes of worlds end radio and they were saying that there were 'idiots' who didnt get the fact that a spell called 'blue flames of tzeench' was a flaming attack even though it didnt say 'flaming attack' in the description. gw responded and said, 'yes, it is a flaming attack it is covered in the name of the spell'.

So the reason I'm posting this is because GW causes a lot of confusion, even more so when old codices see new rule books (which they aren't designed to do).
 
#15 · (Edited)
Hi,
I will start this by saying that no one come prove or disprove that older rules like this fit into a newer framework without some sort of direct decision being handed down by GW.

So we are left with what is the most reasonable course to follow in light of the lack of hard facts.

I see anything in 40K is described by Title, Ability and to a lesser extent Liability.

So let’s look at the Title of the Dark Eldar weapon – Poisoned Blades that are poison coated.
Does it match the Title in the BRB – Poisoned Weapons that are coated in venom.
Seems to be a very good match there, would you not agree?

Ability, Dark Eldar Poison Blades wound on a fixed dice roll of 2+ and Rules Book Poisoned weapons do exactly the same.

Liability – in both areas they denied use against armour.

Further the new rules for Poison weapons defers to ‘as described by the Codex’ on this so it gives latitude on which dice number triggers the cut off point for the wounding, but this hardly matters here.

The Rules book gives you the broader category of what Close Combat Weapons are and now it’s telling you that there is a new class of special close combat weapon in town and the Codex refines their particular nuances further. In this case of course we end up more rules to make our Poison Weapons a bit more ‘Dark Eldar’ in nature with ‘can’t be used with another close combat weapon’ etc.
And I don’t see this as an exclusivity clause at all.

The offered example of IG to WH priests is jumping Codex’s by using Allies and I don’t see this as a point to make here.

The Agoniser does not use poison in any form is more reliably classed as a Power Weapon with additional rules.
It has the ability to work against armour whereas all Poisoned Weapons have the liability of the opposite, so they can never be in the same class even though they use the same mechanism of wounding.

The Grots FNP has been well argued that it has no relevance to the core rules version, so your point is?

This is but of course just my opinion.

Thanks for your time here.
 
#18 ·
I highly doubt anyone would care if you wanted to use the 5th edition rule, so I say do it if you want.

As to the original topic, I have found poisoned blades to be a waste of points. A squad of standard-issue warriors is going to do just as well in close combat. If you're going for a Raider Rush tactic, go with agonisers. If you are going to shoot mostly, use the points for a trophy rack instead.
 
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