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New list sucked the fun out of chaos?

1K views 16 replies 13 participants last post by  PrinceofPleasure 
#1 ·
Hey, is it just me or has the new list completely sucked the fun out of the what i would call "chaos" army? I had this feeling when i was writing a new list to get a nice little 2000 point force together...

I can't properly play a themed army.
I love Khorne, but I've never had a chance to play one, then i started trying to write a list, and realized i have NO magical defense. NONE.

So i had to put a few sorcerers in...

But that completely defeated the point of a Khorne list! I mean, sure, it would be totally worth it if i had some kind of magical resistance, and i could deal with being shot up by static gunlines because most armise aren't as hacky as us and deserve firepower to get one up on us, but to have no magical defense whatsoever seems kinda...rubbish...because not only would i get shot to death by dwarves and empire and other missile armies but i would be screwed over by all magic armies as well...

We also don't have any really, AHAHAHAH your face is GONE awesome trickerey, it just feels like a generic and bland list, with recycled fluff and makeshift rules....

Like i said, does anyone else feel a similar way?
 
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#2 ·
Like any "themed" (which is just another way of saying highly focused) army, a Khornate army will be highly vulnerable to a specific kind of threat, in this case magic.

You still have options:

Scylla Anfingrimm: MR(3)
Collar of Khorne.
There is also a Chaos gift that provides MR(2)

Slam these on your heroes and they will provide decent magic resistance.

Also, Chosen can get a MR(3) form the roll on EotG. With Favor on your champion, getting it shouldn't be too hard.

Good luck!
 
#3 ·
I totally agree, it's just wrong to have Slaanesh and Khorne in the same list, i dread that they will do the same thing to BoC. It's not just that the fluff makes no sense (times was, chaos hadn't already consumed the world because of infighting) it also changed the armybook too much, almost as much as giving almost all BoC's rares and specials choices to WoC.

I prefered the old rules and will be playing my BoC Khorne straight: none of this mixing crap.

I hate to sound like an "it used to all be better" fart, but i'm sorry, that's just how it is.
 
#4 ·
Agreed, this mixing marks stuff is crap, and they know it. They just split Chaos into 3 armies (for whatever reason, probably financial) and because mortals didn't have a lot of choices anymore, they mixed in some BoC and took out any mixing limitations.

If this is the case, fluff-wise, how has Chaos not destroyed the world?

And what the hell are they gonna do with BoC when half their book is in WoC now?
 
#6 ·
I think GW did a good thing when they removed the god specific lists. How the rules are written now reflect the awesome fluff in the book, it was reinvented in a good way. The northmen make more sense now, IMO...
 
#7 · (Edited)
I'm new to Chaos in 7th ed, and the mixing of marks is what ultimately won me over. I've always loved Chaos minis, but I felt the old rules pigeonholed players to a degree I wasn't comfortable with. I for one love the change, it's great for me - though of course I sympathize with the Chaos vets who've basically had the rug tugged out from beneath them.

@Coorran, I don't think so. The book has been designed to accommodate multi-mark armies. Mono-God lists aren't nearly as competitive anymore (as the OP relates).

We also don't have any really, AHAHAHAH your face is GONE awesome trickerey,
You mean, "AHAHAHAH your face is GONE broken trickerey? You're right, we don't. It's a matter we've been discussing at length here.

:D
 
#8 ·
I must admit that I agree. While, personally I never would have played an all Khorne (all that frenzy makes it feel like a wind up army) I agree with the sentiment completely. Mechanically, our list has gotten stronger (well... no more chariots of Slaanesh as core, which was nice, but other than that,) but it's totally un-fluffy. Slaanesh and Khorne troops shouldn't be on the same side of the field as each other much less IN THE SAME FREAKING UNIT!!!!! For the love of the gods, mechanically I REALLY WANT to put a sorcerer of tzeench in my hoesemen of slaanesh unit, because it's such a strong choice, but I can't bring myself to do it. Hell, in Battlefleet Gothic, if you play chaos, and nemesis armies get to close, YOU HAVE TO FIRE ON YOUR OWN SHIPS. They hate each other so much, and it's the only reason they haven't taken over the whole universe. Hell, if no enemy god mixing (Khorne/Slaanesh Khorne/Tzeench Nurgle/Tzeench) rules were enforced across the board for chaos, it might make, DOC a bit less over powered, but alass, these are but lofty dreams, and they won't get a re-write for years. IMO, we DID become really strong, contrary the list-hate thread on the same forums... but much less so if you want to be even semi-fluffy. I'm sorry, but when in one game, units in your own army have to kill each other because of religious differences, in a different game (using the same gods,) you should not be able to put a champion of god one in a unit of the other god. THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.... if chewbacca is a wookie, you must aquit.

On a personal note, I am disappointed that Khorne wasn't fixed for mortals, despite being fixed for daemons months before our books release. Really? mortals who worship the god are so fanatical they have to charge, but MANIFESTATIONS OF THAT SAME GOD'S WILL aren't ..... I call shenanigans on you GW.
 
#9 · (Edited)
But that completely defeated the point of a Khorne list!
Further proof that GW messed up. Splitting Chaos, allowing god mixing... and destroying all previous fluff, resulting in... this! "Moral" dilemmas for true worshippers of Chaos! ;)

If you want a decent themed Khorne army then you're probably best using Hordes of Chaos tbh.


And what the hell are they gonna do with BoC when half their book is in WoC now?
Nothing, like they care :p lol. Some are viewing it as a good thing though, you can get 2 armies in one now, just changing the core units from ranked to skirmishers (Some clever person had the idea of using Beastmen as Marauders... makes the doubling up even easier)
 
#11 · (Edited)
Black tongue + infernal puppet combo seems pretty hahaha your face is gone to me... same with a gateway casting tzeentch demon prince with tendrils.

I love how you can have multipul gods represented in your battleforce. Even the fluff they have created to represent this makes total sense, the gods are worshiped "by mortals" as a pantheon. it enables you to have a wider spread army capable of different types of tactics.

If you don't like it then ask your oponent if you can use the hordes of chaos book instead, I wouldn't mind, and unless your opponent is a total jerk I doubt they will either...

In other words, whats your problem?

edit: don't forget that it if you put book of secrets on someone they can now carry arcane items like dispell scrolls, or even make a fluff background that a tzeentch sorcerer lord has put a spell over a khorne army and it's heroes and has gotten them to believe he is really a priest of khorne. that way you can have a sorcerer lord rulling over a khorne army :)

All you need to do is get a little imaginative.
 
#13 ·
Black tongue + infernal puppet combo seems pretty hahaha your face is gone to me... same with a gateway casting tzeentch demon prince with tendrils.

If you don't like it then ask your oponent if you can use the hordes of chaos book instead, I wouldn't mind, and unless your opponent is a total jerk I doubt they will either...

In other words, whats your problem?

All you need to do is get a little imaginative.
The main problem is that you could play a multi god list before, generally a 2-3 god list, something that corresponds with the fluff, generally a slaaneshi-tzeentchian alliance or of course a khurgle list.

Or of course, if you wanted to field a we worship the whole panthion of the gods list you could play an undivided list.

Nowadays, yes we have a more powerful list, but deary me have we paid for it, there's hardly any character to the army...

and in response to the POOF tricks. I was talking about a midground, we seem to have REALLY useful gifts and weapons, and utterly pointless ones, to the point where customization is hard without having a choice of 2 or so Exalted lords, about 3 different Sorcerers and the 1 500 point demon prince...

I also have the creeping feeling that i will indeed maintain using the Hordes book...
 
#12 ·
Neither of those combos are really that great. The gateway DP is good but them making thier points back and getting off good gateways is not reliable at all. And there is a rather decent chance of not getting gateway. There are other good spells in that lore, but nothing really good enough to justify a 550 point model.

And the black tough, infernal puppet combo is nice, but expensive. Sure you can force a miscast and manipulate it, but what if you dont get a very nasty roll. Then you put a wound on one of you models and wasted points and availability for magic items. It is nice and can make things go poof, but many times its just a tradeoff. One wound on your hero for a wound on his.
 
#14 ·
my biggest problem with the Black Tongue + Infernal Puppet is the amount of points it ties up for that combo to work. You either have to sacrifice almost all the points on a lord level caster or dedicate almost 2 whole hero level casters for it.

On a hero level caster the Black Tongue will bring them to half life with no real guarantee of damage. Against some of the heavier magic armies out there you might end up with a Slann or Teclis type characters who can avoid miscasts.

Just seems like alot of points / characters and effort directed for one "tricksy" attack that may or may not even do much.


Gateway can be roughly on the same level as well, and tooling a smaller army around it makes it a "make or break" spell. Against regular opponents they invest in a hundred points worth of scrolls and you are virtually left praying for an irresistable force to get anything decent from the spell, and even then.......you still have to roll for strength and hits which could poop out as well.


Our "tricks" aren't too tricksy, we pretty much have to do it the old fashioned way, which sometimes doesn't always work out, but I haven't seen too many people cry cheese when facing our book versus a majority of the other newly released armies, so I guess we have that going for us......kind of?
 
#15 ·
Scrolls.

Many people forget that, fielding a tzeentch DP once in a while keep your opponents on their toes. Don't forget that if your opponent invest 100 pts in scrolls to negate your gateways, that pretty much means that his sorcerers have little or no equipement to boost their own magic at all.

Either they waste points when you don't field your DP, or they can't have an efficient magic of their own.
 
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#16 ·
I completely agree. The DP is good but if you use it too much people will adapt and they it doesnt take that much.

A simple 2 scroll caddy setup destroys the normal DP/nurgle mage setup.

4DD and 4 scrolls. Thats 4 dispelled gateways with scrolls, and then throw 3 DD at bubboes to almost guarentee a dispel and throw your last dice at flickering fire. Sure gateway will get an IF here and there but this offensive setup will cost 700+ points and it is rather easily nullified by 200-300 points of magic defense.
 
#17 ·
I've been using this guy for my Gate way spam

Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch
Enchanted Shield
Collar of Khorne
Spell Familiar
Blood skull Pendant
Conjoined Homoculous

He's 435 or something close, cast gateway on 4 dice reliably as it goes from being a 15 pl spell to a 13 pl spell.

I back him up with 2 lvl1's casting FF, and an exalted with fireball on disk. leaves 2 dice for pandemonium.

I've recently been trying to build a slaanesh Sorcerer lord army.
 
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