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Is Saim Hann effective?

2K views 11 replies 6 participants last post by  Fizzics 
#1 ·
I'm looking at starting a jetbike army, but not sure how effective they are. Does a full jetbike army maintain the effectiveness of a normal Eldar army?
 
#2 ·
Long story short, it's one of our -most- effective remaining strategies. You heard me, GW lurkers!

Eldar have few advantages, but the amount of modifiers you can stack and tricks you can pull with jetbikes (turn 5 trickery, say what?), as well as the benefit of having the extra toughness, make it pretty solid. Fritz (WayOfSaimHann) is considered one of the Eldar players most well versed in arcane rule-bending and ridiculous strategies. If you really care about your opponent's opinion of how you won, you might want to steer clear of him, though. It's apparently frustrating to kill the majority of an army that still contests and controls enough to win.

You can, for example, box a Land Raider in with Vipers. It takes a few minutes to explain but suffice it say that it works. YouTube - Eldar Land Raider Tactics
 
#4 ·
Well, Fizzics, Eldar pretty much universally have an uphill struggle. Bike-dar have slightly less of an uphill battle. (Understandably; they're flying.)
 
#5 ·
It's certainly doable, the humble Guardian Jetbike Squad is one of our most flexible units. It's also quite fragile though - you are after all fielding Assault Marine equivalents.

If they ever get around to releasing the new jetbike sculpt, I'd do something like this at 1500 :-

Autarch w/Jetbike, Fusion Gun and Laser Lance
Autarch w/Jetbike, Fusion Gun and Laser Lance

Guardian Jetbikesx3 w/Shuriken Cannon (Autarch here)
Guardian Jetbikesx3 w/Shuriken Cannon (Autarch here)

Warlock w/Singing Spear, Destructor and Jetbike
Guardian Jetbikesx6 w/2xShuriken Cannons

Warlock w/Singing Spear, Destructor and Jetbike
Guardian Jetbikesx6 w/2xShuriken Cannons

Warlock w/Singing Spear, Destructor and Jetbike
Guardian Jetbikesx6 w/2xShuriken Cannons

2xVyper w/Bright Lance
2xVyper w/Bright Lance
2xVyper w/Bright Lance

Go second if you get the chance and hide in reserves, use the Autarch's Master Strategist rule to try to come out of reserves at the same time. Lots of anti-tank and anti-infantry firepower, the Autarch's are your lone CC units.
Very fragile list though !
 
#6 ·
I'd like to talk about the incorperation of Shining Spears vs Vypers. Now I know that Vypers are sort of lost in the new world of 5th edition. Being AV10 isn't doing them any favors. But are they really the better option when building a mostly shooting bike list?

Is it better to split roles and bring the spears because they can last longer on the table?
 
#7 · (Edited)
nope...spears do not survive better if you use vypers correctly. vypers have a very small signature that can be hidden (hull down option = 3+ cover save). shining spear are simply t4 and are close combat specialists.

If you look how Fritz was designing saim hann armies you`ll see he is not using only jetbike equivalent. he has prisms and a few serpents. his rock is the seer council that make his vypers more durable by fire attraction. he simply throw the council like a scalpel to break and divide and use the mob of vypers and shuricannon jetbikes to destroy flanks. the serpents/prisms are for covers and firesupport while the dragons inside the serpents are for anything that need to get S8 AP1.

While shining spears are killly they are almost as expensive like the seer council but way less durable and do not fit the hard remaining meteorit ou need to have in army but they are a fine sharp rock but too small not to be taken by the first paper the enemy can throw.
 
#8 ·
I think councils aren't that great in the current metagame. They're a huge points sink, and become very fragile when Fortune is negated as is going to happen quite frequently with all the pyschic defence that's going around at the moment. They can get tarpitted quite easily too - anything with feel no pain will bog them down.

With mech or bike Eldar I think it's best to go all shooty, which is where Vypers come in. Not only do they provide extra firepower in areas where you may be lacking, they can also block movement of any nasty stuff. A Vyper that's moved flat out is surprisingly hard to shift when your opponent needs sixes to hit, and has a 4+ cover save
 
#9 ·
It is effective if used correctly, If you want the master strategist search for WayOfSaimHann on youtube. Fritz uses the all jetbike army, mine is more Mechdar with some bikes thrown in for speed.

The main thing you need to know about the army is this: Its not easy to play. If you get caught in the open, your dead. If you get caught in prolonged fire fights, your dead. If you get caught in assault, you get the idea...

The army is THE specialist in Hit and Run tactics. Come on the board late, use your speed to get cover saves and pick apart your enemies weakest areas, if it gets tough, fly away. That's the key, use speed and precision. The army is very fun to play because it presents a good tactical challenge.

Lets just say they are not your typical 'sit-in-cover-with-toughness-4-while-i-pump-lascannons-into-you' army...
 
#10 ·
So here is a preliminary list. Just to get me thinking about it.

Jetbike 2000 Pts - Eldar Army

1 Farseer (HQ) @ 185 Pts
Runes of Warding; Spirit Stones; Jetbike; Doom; Fortune; Runes of Witnessing

1 Warlocks (HQ) @ 275 Pts
Destructor (x1); Jetbike
1 Warlocks
Destructor (x1); Jetbike
1 Warlocks
Destructor (x1); Jetbike
1 Warlocks
Enhance (x1); Jetbike
1 Warlocks
Embolden (x1); Jetbike

6 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 196 Pts
Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs
1 Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Catapults; TL Shuriken Cannon

6 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 196 Pts
Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs
1 Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Catapults; TL Shuriken Cannon

3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron (Troops)
TL Shuriken Catapults (x2); Shuriken Cannon (x1); Jetbike

3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron (Troops)
TL Shuriken Catapults (x2); Shuriken Cannon (x1); Jetbike

3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron (Troops)
TL Shuriken Catapults (x2); Shuriken Cannon (x1); Jetbike

3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron (Troops)
TL Shuriken Catapults (x2); Shuriken Cannon (x1); Jetbike

2 Vyper (Fast Attack) @ 180 Pts
Shuriken Cannon Upgrade (x2); Bright Lance (x1); Shuriken Cannon (x1)

2 Vyper (Fast Attack) @ 180 Pts
Shuriken Cannon Upgrade (x2); Bright Lance (x1); Shuriken Cannon (x1)

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 160 Pts
Holo-fields; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Prism Cannon

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 160 Pts
Holo-fields; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Prism Cannon

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 160 Pts
Holo-fields; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Prism Cannon

Models in Army: 39

Total Army Cost: 1996

Now, I don't have an Autarch. Big disadvantage? Where would you put it?
 
#11 · (Edited)
oh i like.it...can be tweaked to be even better....let me try...be back in 5

Later edit:
This how i`ll do it

1 Farseer (HQ) @ 133 Pts
Runes of Warding; Jetbike; Fortune; Singing Spear

Autarch (HQ) @ 120 Pts
Fusion Gun, Jetbike, Power Weapon

1 Warlocks (HQ) @ 210 Pts
Jetbike
1 Warlocks
Destructor (x1); Jetbike
1 Warlocks
Enhance (x1); Jetbike
1 Warlocks
Embolden (x1); Jetbike

5 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 200 Pts
Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs
1 Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Catapults; TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

5 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 200 Pts
Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs
1 Wave Serpent
TL Shuriken Catapults; TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron (Troops) @ 129 Pts
TL Shuriken Catapults (x2); Shuriken Cannon (x1); Jetbike
Warlock, Singing Spear, Jetbike, Embolden

3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron (Troops) @ 129 Pts
TL Shuriken Catapults (x2); Shuriken Cannon (x1); Jetbike
Warlock, Singing Spear, Jetbike, Embolden

3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron (Troops) @ 129 Pts
TL Shuriken Catapults (x2); Shuriken Cannon (x1); Jetbike
Warlock, Singing Spear, Jetbike, Embolden

3 Guardian Jetbike Squadron (Troops) @ 129 Pts
TL Shuriken Catapults (x2); Shuriken Cannon (x1); Jetbike
Warlock, Singing Spear, Jetbike, Embolden

1 Vyper (Fast Attack) @ 70 Pts
Shuriken Cannon Upgrade (x2); Scatter Laser (x1); Shuriken Cannon (x1)

1 Vyper (Fast Attack) @ 70 Pts
Shuriken Cannon Upgrade (x2); Scatter Laser (x1); Shuriken Cannon (x1)

1 Vyper (Fast Attack) @ 70 Pts
Shuriken Cannon Upgrade (x2); Scatter Laser (x1); Shuriken Cannon (x1)

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 135 Pts
Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Prism Cannon

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 135 Pts
Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Prism Cannon

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 135 Pts
Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Prism Cannon

Models 40 total points 1994


I did not liked the choice of BL on vypers (bs3 and 1 shot= bad) so i put scatter lasers instead. I made 3 separate vypers (if you manage 3+ cover save the enemy will hate your vypers, if not they still have to split firepower to do something against them). I sacrificed holofields on prisms for spirit stones (you really need to keep moving if not imobilized or worse). I put more hit and run options for light armour opening (singing spear warlocks on jetbike squads with embolden so your squads will not run like pussies). You have an autarch with another melta and a power weapon for pot shots against devs or other firepower specialists with no real cc power. I made the seer council cheaper as they are a throw away squad. you smash them with the dragons on the enemy throat while 42 shots of S6 break cans and infatry, 3 prisms do their job .

Looks a little more flexible than your`s.
 
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