Librarium Online Forums banner

To Trukk or not to Trukk

2K views 25 replies 9 participants last post by  adamwelton 
#1 ·
Hi all,

I've got a few black reach orks laying around so I thought I'd build and paint up an army. (40 boyz 10 nobz 9 coptas) and I'm needing some help on my first purchases to add to this.

My question is this. Is it better to keep the 10 man squad and throw them in trukks, or beef up to 30 man squads and foot slog it across the board? I need to figure out the best way to go so i don't waste money on vehicles if i don't need them.

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Unfortunately this one is a big "it depends".

Each type of unit has its advantages. Trukk boyz can make it across the table very quickly - in some cases even fast enough to pull off a first-turn charge, but at any rate much faster than a unit of boyz on foot. Trukks have two big disadvantages to keep in mind, though. First, they're the most flimsy transport in the game. AV10 can be popped by massed bolter fire, or dealt with easily with support weapons, and true anti-tank weapons will make mincemeat of it.

All too often, that means your canny opponents will concentrate their anti-tank fire on your trukk(s) early in the battle, often before your first turn, and slag them. If you're lucky they'll merely be immobilized or get a kareen/krunch result, and your 12-ork unit will have to foot-slog it anyway; if you're unlucky it'll go off like a bomb in the middle of your formation and do a bunch of wounds to the riders and surrounding units. There are no defensive upgrades you can take that will make this result less likely, unless you have a friendly Big Mek with Kustom Force Field nearby. (But a trukk is generally too wimpy a transport to devote to moving your KFF Mek around!) And unlike Dark Eldar skimmer transports, you can't turbo-boost for a cover save. To a degree, you might be able to drive into cover or out of lines of sight, but that will slow down your trukks...

The second problem is the transport capacity. 12 regular ork boyz don't really have a lot of staying power. Taking even a few wounds will knock them out of fearless (and taking a lot will mean you either run when you break, or No Retreat will kill most of the unit off!) They'll work fine against light units like artillery, against combat-squadded Marines (that aren't assault marines!), and for knocking out a key vehicle or two. But a bigger squad can be a lot more potent.

Footslogging isn't necessarily the answer, though. Orks aren't fast, they can get hung up in terrain, and they're a really attractive target for blast weapons. Furthermore, it can be bloody hard to maneuver a unit that big around ruins, blocking tanks, etc. But eh, at least it's free, and against lists that focus too much on one-shot heavy anti-tank, a lot of footsloggin' boyz will carry the day.

Pretty much the worst thing you can do is only take one trukk. You can safely assume EVERYONE will have enough anti-tank to take out one. Having two or three spreads them out, and if you have a whole lot of vehicles, that increases each trukk's chances of making it through (especially if you also have, say, battlewagons, kans, buggies, and other things which the enemy will be worried about!)

There isn't an obvious "best way". If you're worried about buying units you won't use, then before you stock up, you need to sit down and decide what kind of army list you think you're interested in. Kan wall? Lots of vehicles? Green Tide? Once you're there it's pretty easy.
 
#3 ·
I've been running a 2k list with 4 trucks, a battlewagon, 2 warbuggies and 6 kills kans as my armor and it has been doing amazingly well for a long time. I find that the flimsyness of the Trukks is EASILY outweighed by my ability to swarm forward with amazing speed.

Also, buy rams. The ability to tank shock enemies around the board as you please is an amazing thing. Ramming is okay, but it's often a one shot type of thing. :p

Some local ork players at my shop like to sort of mix and match to try and overwhelm the opponent - two squads of 60 orks and four squads of orks in trukks. The effectiveness of this has seemed to be good - unless the opponent runs droppods.
 
#5 ·
IMO keep the boyz mobz maxed out and stick your Nobz in the Trukk

The truck is going to die, just a matter of time. So I would use it to ferry the Nobz into close combat and slog big units of boyz across the board.

Compare how many dice you toss with 12 boyz to how many you get with 20 or 30!
 
#7 ·
The truck is going to die, just a matter of time.
Interestingly enough, I find that if a trukk doesn't die in the initial first shots, it'll survive the entire game...mainly because most opponents ignore it once the cargo has been dropped off.

The amount of dice 30 orks can throw doesn't matter when only 6 of them reach the opponent. :p
Well you'd never just run a bare group of boyz. They'd be behind a kan wall, or a line of grotz, a KFF, or you'd have 100+ of them.
 
#8 ·
Some good points chaps, and ones that I have been making for ages much to the chagrin of most Ork players, who often hate to hear debate on their favourite subject of transports for the Boyz. It's nice to see how many good ladz are on the same wavelengf! I personally throw four 30-Boy mobs forward behind two Grot screens and take template pressure away by putting an additional screen of massed bikes and buggies down a flank. I have no need for Trukks at all because so many Boyz always trap an enemy in their corner and make mincemeat of them. That's about twenty small vehicles and 150 Boyz for 1500 points!

A suspicious alternative is to field three basic Battlewagons (20-Boy carry cap, open topped and up to five S8 assault weapons mounted!) in order to get a few screening Boyz ('Ard Boy Shootaz usually for the save as well as the number of ranged and assault dice they still chuck about) in front of a fast-moving T3 enemy like Eldar. They're still Fearless, the numbers ensure that they last longer and the thought of being assaulted from an open-topped wagon often causes confusion in anyone's list, especially if they're Tankbustaz!

Sixty 4+ save Boyz from three FA14 Battlewagons each with five S8 assault weapons? With a character like Ghazhgkull? Wholly unacceptable! On the other hand, Trukks en masse as part of a huge Kult of Speed fluff list is often good fun. Lots of Battlewagons, Bikes, Koptaz, Buggies, Kans and other fast-moving madness can give opponents like Guard and Tyranids heart attacks because of all the shooting dice that hit them first. The only let-down is the cash expense of such models. The ultimate tick in the box is chucking out thirty-plus motorz in an Apocalypse Kult of Speed list that causes even Grey Knights to reach for a change of underpants.
 
#10 ·
A few big issues with running all guys on foot is mobility. The game can often flow so that you have to get your guys 20-30'' in a turn or two or else you lose the game. This can happen no matter how good your tactics are based on a few bad rolls. With a trukk army, you are able to more effectively move to the flow of battle, and to hit opponents weaknesses.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I find that if you are going to be transporting nobs, meganobz are both cheaper, and just as effective as the "insanely huge point" nob mob + painboy.

Generally the nob deathstar in a battlewagon isn't going to be doing any real shooting, they'll usually pop out, combiskorcha something, then proceed to obliterate it.

Meganobz do the same thing, only cost less, and they're all str 9 (on the charge) PK's of doom! Plus their armor save is 2+, instead of the 4+ from the nob squad. And since power weapons nullify FNP AND armor saves, they're pretty much in the same boat as the standard nobz. (Of course you could take a 5+ invul on the standard nobz).

The main reason for taking the nob deathsquad on the bikes, is the T4(5) from the bikes. Makes it far more difficult to wound them with standard bolter fire, and they always get the 4+ cover save from the exhaust cloud, instead of the 4+ armor save that constantly gets nullified by almost every gun in the game. They also get a twin linked, str 5 assault 3 gun!
 
#13 ·
I look at it more though as to what will attract more fire. You arent just getting bolter fire miscellanous shots at nobz (on bikes or otherwise) you're generally getting an entire army worth of fire at them. Meganobz I don't like, for more than one reason. Slow and purposeful, and only having pk's, in addition to no invulnerable saves. Whats the point of furious charge if your initive stays at 1? Your going to instant kill almost any unit as it is with str 8, so the +1 str isnt so much worth it to me either. That is all subject to if you can even manage to pull the charge off. Also, you cant sweeping advance in mega armour, so if the unit manages to fall back, you have at least one more unit shooting/assaulting you (in addition to whomever else they were going to commit in the first place.) Having reg nobz with the 4+/5+ and fnp, you can arrange their weapons so that ini matters, in addition to getting the WAGGHH banner, for the better ws. Now, you are looking at a resilient, faster moving, better equipped squad, that has just as much capability as a meganobz squad.
 
#14 ·
How many basic bikes can you get for the cost of five Nob bikers? You will lose several on the way in, so their worth drops dramatically (unless you've had some amazing luck or play some hopeless opponents). I use a fast column of buggies, bikes, Battlewagons and Skorchas to screen my Boyz. I don't care about casualties because I return enough firepower to shake/stun anything threatening me. The Boyz on foot close later and finish off with Powerklaws. Basic bikes are gold, and with Wazdakka they're even better and you don't need a Nob!
 
#15 ·
S&P isn't a big deal at all. You roll 2d6 and take the highest. And you can still waagh them if you really need the charge. (disemebark, run, assault). Generally when you're running a unit with tons of combiskorcha's, you are going to be close enough to get the charge no matter what.

And str 9 is great vs vehicles or monoliths :). As for str 8, it's key. Every hit from a meganob instant gibs a multi-wound T4 character or unit. I play nids every weekend, and the look on his face when he got hit with 15+ str 9 PK hits against his warriors was priceless. The MANZ took out something like 400+ points of warriors in a single assault. That never would have happened with a normal unit of nobz + painboy. In another game, they combi-skorched 500+ units that just spore podded in. 46 wounds!

And yes you can use normal nobs to handle wound allocationness...but I think their point costs just get completely out of wack. You're generally looking at +100 points for the same number of nobz in the painboy/wound allocation setup, as you are for 5 meganobz, all with PK's.

Oh and since I play vs nids almost every weekend, it doesn't matter "what" the orks have with init. They always go last. Every single time. I don't think I've ever had an ork go before anything I've ever fought. I mean geez...our elite nobz go at the same time as space marines? (on the charge) OH BOY! I'd rather swing with instant gibbing, armor ignoring attacks, then swing last with something that they'll just roll a 2+ or 3+ save against. I mean what do the orks actually go first against in close combat? A rock? Maybe the side of a building? Other orks?
 
#17 ·
S&P isn't a big deal at all. You roll 2d6 and take the highest. And you can still waagh them if you really need the charge. (disemebark, run, assault). Generally when you're running a unit with tons of combiskorcha's, you are going to be close enough to get the charge no matter what.
In addition, if you kombi-skorch a squad to oblivion, good luck in assaulting it. Whatevers left will be out of range for you to assault, unless your opponent is just as simple minded.
 
#16 ·
Playing against the same army every week is what makes you think that your strategem is the best. Yea, when you are fighting an army that bases itself around monstourus creatures, the more pks the better, especially there are few (if any) invulnerable saves in the tyranid army. So go ahead, have fun with your magnifying glass, burning bugs like we did as kids. But, when you are ready to face some serious adversity, come back and tell me how well your megaslobz do. Oh, and you say that regular nobz wouldn't have done the same thing? I nearly swallowed my gum I was laughing so hard.
 
#18 ·
The only army I don't face on a weekly basis is dark eldar. We've got everything else covered.
Eldar, BA, SW, vanilla marines, daemon hunters, daemons, witch hunters, nids, IG, tau, orks, black templars, and necrons.

I think you misunderstood me. I was merely stating that your average wound allocation group of nobs has a limited number of powerclaws. As such, the actual number of armor ignoring hits is much less then the same sized groups of meganobz. As such, the nob group usually allows your opponent to take a large # of saves. If you hit enough times, it's all good, (buckets of saves = failed saves) but it pales in comparison to them getting only invulnerable saves, with the threat of instant death if they fail. And since every revised codex in the past year or so has INIT 4 or better all over the place, it's only the warboss that ever gets to go at the same time or (rarely) before. Don't get me started on weapon skills. What a crock that is. That's got to be the most busted up chart in the whole rulebook.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a group of nobz in a battlewagon. I just feel they not as effective as a squad of meganobz, which cost less points. (in a battlewagon) . Now put that same group of nobz on some bikers, upping their T up, and giving them 4+ cover saves, as well as str 5, assault 3 weapons...that's some pwnstar right there!

No need to be offended! We are just discussing! Have a fungus beer!
 
#19 ·
My last point, is that you avoided one of the main points of my rebuttle. You will not, ever, make the charge the first turn with Meganobz, and would be lucky to make it the 2nd turn. Does the enemy you face not beleive in shooting? My playing style has always been target priority; Meganobz are very high on that list. The fact that you make it into combat with a full squad, in addition to being able to sqeeze off all of your shots before hand, leads me to think you are either extremely lucky, or your opponent extremely nieve.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Move BW, disembark 2", waagh d6, S&P 2d6 highest. I don't think I've ever not made the charge with the meganobz? I guess if you weren't waaghing, you'd be going by pure luck, or just by careful wagon positioning. Even then, you're still looking at an average charge of 6 inches (when you include the 2" open topped disembark).

Whether you shoot or not is based off of

1) What the target is
2) Whether or not you feel lucky enough to make a good S&P roll.

In the case of my skorcha example, the nobz were already on foot, having just wiped out a squad. The other player spore podded in for some reason right next to them, they proceeded to hit 9 times with each single shot skorcha template. Bitterness ensued. He'll never do that again.

I tend to use mine as a small point, heavy hitting squad. Kinda of like a big hammer that acts as a distraction when it hits. All eyes fall upon the MANZ that just wiped out a squad of marines and their 200+ point librarian. Everyone then shoots at them, forgets all about the buggies, deff dreads, killa kans, other boyz, etc.
 
#21 ·
It takes a lot more than some good old fashioned swag talk to offend me sir. Weapon skill comes into play just for the amount of dice you roll. Hitting on 3's is far better than 4's, and its in that advantage that having big choppas to suppliment your power klaws is so nice. Charging, having ini 4 means you strike at the same time as Marines. This is SO good, because far too often to I lose boyz/nobz/warboss attacks, because they were taken out by a lucky Captain with powersword. Then, having charged, that's 4 attacks, hitting on 3's with power klaws. Having a 4+/4+ is, in my opinion just as good as a singular 2+, and I still have a chance to defend against instant death with the cybork bodies. Blow for blow I'll take Nobz of Slobz all day =)
 
#22 ·
For all his elongated replies, Ninjesta is ultimately right. Mathhammer does work if you apply the right unit in the right circumstances. For examplemany people write off 'Ard Boyz but that 4+ armour save is going to cause a lot of panic amongst anyone wielding S4/AP5 shooters. Everything works when used correctly. Some lad on another LO Ork thread seems to like Stormboyz and although I wouldn't use them I would agree that they can be useful for jumping out from behind vehicles or large mobs and causing changes of trousers everywhere.

This thread was originally designed to assess suitability of Trukk-mounted mobs. Let's see if we can stick to it.
 
#23 ·
For all his elongated replies, Ninjesta is ultimately right.
Hey now, flowing speech is far more interesting to read than the typical, bland, bulleted points of what some people pass off as a response. Elongated or otherwise, I leave nothing to be left out, or left for the mind to fill in the blanks on. I say exactly what I mean, everytime, all the time, forever. Also I laughed out loud when you said "changes in trousers" =P
 
#24 ·
For someone who hails from the heartland of yankeedom (bloody euro-socialists and their arse) you are clearly an intelligent human being. I however am a British soldier with all the historic imperatives that my employment entails. Thankfully we haven't undertaken any drunken rapine for about two hundred and fifty years so I firmly believe that we have something to offer the civilised world, seeing as we helped it maintain it's current status. Unfortunately the old saying "say as you see" still applies to the Soldiers of the Queen and we have daily occasion to offend someone who in all honesty has no reason to be.

In other words, bollocks to all that old arse. Ninjesta has a worthy name and obviously a deserved reputation which I shall gladly uphold. The other residents of this internet forum are often infected by Games Workshop's "win at all costs" dictatorial attitude or they're under fifteen (not as a rule though) and considerably unaware of reality posed by civilisation as stated above.

Right, that's enough of the politicking and pleasantry. A face full of 4+ Save Boyz IS enough to cause anyone to reach for fresh pants, and that's how we win games. Here's a typical Orky quote:

"Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
 
#25 ·
My answer as to trukk or not to trukk.

Battlewagons with 20 boyz are better than trukks with 12. in 1500 points you can take 3 wagons with rollaz and 2 trukks and watch your enemy panic.

I personally take 180 boyz in 1500. turn 3 charge with fire support over their backs. People say only 6 will hit the line. I find that about 20 do in some squads and sometimes 25...

It is scary to look at, but funny as you almost can't deploy fully
 
  • Like
Reactions: adamwelton
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top