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The Wish List

4K views 32 replies 14 participants last post by  waddywoos 
#1 ·
Other than to liven up the Ogre Forum some, i was wondering what you ogre players would like too see in a new book. Obviously It won't be out this year, TKs are Next and some would Argue that Bret's and Woad's need it just as much(although I've seen some Unorthodox Woad lists trash some people)
But what can you see see being "new" in the Ogre list, I'm pretty sure that Rinox Riders will be introduced officially but what else?

Few things that have crossed my mind outside of maybe a couple new kind of "Ogre Groups", have been a Giant/Super Yeti. Kinda like your general purpose Giant Creature that isn't a random attack non stubborn Giant(i really hate the slave giant).

I've also thought of maybe a actual Artillery piece, like Hell Cannon size. I know we got Leadbelchers i can't wait for them too either come down in cost or go up in strength but i think having a actual Cannon would be fun, and somewhat interesting. As for what crews it idk if it would be a couple ogres or a mob or Gnobs or a mix.

Finally I've been wondering is there a flying creature big enough in the warhammer world that could be a "dragon" mount for a Ogre Tyrant? Now i know Ogres would have a hard time convincing themselves not too bash and eat the bloody thing, but they got Rinox Riders, so obviously they can fight they're hunger for a little while.
I would imagine that if it was a prized possession of the Tribes Tyrant that no one would be stupid enough too try and eat it anyway. I know something like that would be points heavy but man would it be fun too play.
 
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#2 ·
Other then TKs I don't see an army out there that needs an update more then ogres. We're a CC army that loses in CC. I know it's not fair to compare an old book with one that just came out but I'm going to do it anyway cos I still have to fight the new book. In the O@G book a unit (I think it was black orks, I don't play them so not really sure) cost 12pt per model. Is armed to the teeth with great weapon, 2 weapons, weapon and a shield, and a +4 save. They have WS 4, Str 4, T 4, I 3, and +1 str in the 1st round of any combat. They can get 3 for 36pts, while an base ogre bull is 35. Now who do you think will win in CC? But I guess that's not the point of this thread.

What I would like to see in the next book.
-Bulls should have more options. Every unit is the same, it gets old.
-Ironguts should have WS 4, and cheaper. They the body guards of the tyrant yet only have GW and HA?
-Hunters should be removed as a hero. They don't play well at all, I've stopped useing mine. Lower some of his stats, he doesn't need WS 5, S 5, when he has a bolt thrower, and put him as a special. Even in the fluff he doesn't sound like a hero but an outcast.
-Another lord. Keep the 0-1 on the Tyrant, he's the iron fist leader of the tribe. They not they kind of people that would share power, but it would be nice to have something else to take.
-Ironfists should be able to be used as a shield against ranged attacks. I lose most of my guys just trying to reach CC
-Gut magic. I like the idea of gut magic but with 8th ed it's became pretty weak and in needs a little help there.
-Gnoblar fast cav. I'd run them just to see the gnoblars trying to hold on the the back of wolfs or something lol.
-Gnoblar short bows. We need some kind of ranged attack, and if goblins can use them why not gnoblars
-Gnoblar tappers should get a poison attack. At Str 2 range 8" they are too weak to really do anything, of they had poison I would run them no question.
-Rinox riders would be kool but cost a lot of points, I doubt I would use them of they were in the standard list.
That's all I can think of atm
 
#3 · (Edited)
hmm i agree with most of what you've said except the gut magic, i love our magic(although a couple spells are close too unused), although i will say its not even close too as powerful as some of the other unique magic lines.

As for us being a CC army that loses in CC, I'm half and half on that. I don't lose that often in CC BUT, BUT BUT BUT its only becuase of the Gut magic. I think its stupid that "without" our gut magic we lose in CC, we should at least hold our own without it, but just getting rick rolled without our buffs seems ridiculous. I actually have more problems with super Magic defense armies that shoot more than CC armies. Magic defense armies in general are so tough for me actually. If I can't buff my units I get beat into the ground, i assume most of you guys have the same problems.

Hardest Army for me Is HEs atm, a Archmage with that +1 dispell item shuts my magic phase down completely, what units he brings is almost irrelevant. I think its like +6 too dispell total? craziness.

EDIT: also I'm curious as too how you've noticed a downfall in our magic this Edition, The more balanced Power Die along with buff stacking has done me a lot better this Ed than in 7th. How goes your games usually in that dept?
I think that Gnoblar Calv sounds amazing though good idea imo :p
 
#4 ·
agreeing with most of what has been said, (bulls need more options, ect.) I also think that Gorgers should be looked at. Less points, better stats, larger units, what ever. They are a unit that has a lot of potential and seem to fit well in Ogre lore, but just aren't viable.
also, we need a large unit like the o&g aracnid thing or beastmens cygore, something like that. Personaly I like the afore mentioned idea of a huge yeti or some specialized giant (like one that has been 'trained'), cause the slave giant sucks
 
#6 ·
i just thought of something for Yhetees myself, "uncanny reflexes" something like missiles only ever hit on 6s, it would make them ideal for assaulting crossbowmen gunners and warmachines, stuff that gives us a hard time to begin with, and wouldn't make them super OP in CC. I'd imagine something that can scale cliffs piece of cake would have superb reflexes as well. Just my thoughts.
 
#8 ·
If GW keeps to their new business strategy, Ogres will get at least 1 large monster. Probably will cost around $60, and have some pretty sweet stats that will make people want to buy it. Also they are going away from Pewter models, so figure a rhinox junk thrower that is plastic, and maybe some plastic man-eaters. I would love to see some sort of calvary or chariot unit for us to add to our list. Pare down the special items to a few useful ones.
 
#9 ·
tyrants need to be able to take rhinox as mounts, as well as our magic users, give us some kind of warshrine that enhances all nearby ogres and gives boosts to spells, keep the gut magic but make it work better with 8. we could do with cheaper units as whole because we are still paying for dogs of war rule, more ranged units as well not sure what but something other than gnoblers and leadbelchers and scraplauncher.
 
#10 ·
i was just reading this thread when i overcame u guys talking about loosing in CC
have you guys not done the standard list of 24 ogres with tyrant, 3 hero's and a butcher?, nothing will stop that list, the back two ranks alone put put 36 attacks, + you have all the attacks from your hero's and it come to around 2000 points if i remember right
ok purple sun will screw you over but then it screws every1 over
 
#11 ·
I would not say its unstoppable, but it is quite strong. I'd say its biggest strength is people don't know how to fight against it reliably yet, namely due to our armies "rarity". Also i bring 2 hero's and 2 butchers personally :p.

Anyhow i think what was mainly being talked about in this thread was how magic dependent this "CC" army is at the moment. Hell i think Gut magic is called that because you shoot the magical steroid directly into the Gut. XD
 
#12 ·
Anyhow i got the new TK book(so far in 8th Ed its been 2/2 for armies i play, if Ogres are next it'll be 3 for 3, but I immediately turned to the magical item page and I feel that a low unique item page is in fact the new trend this Edition.

I have mixed feelings on this, I think it's a attempt by Games Workshop to help "balance" the game, but i just don't see that really working. They are trying to turn from Hero craft into Unit composition craft, and to be honest there will still be imbalances in that department. I like how the common magic item list huge now but it really takes army uniqueness for hero's out of the game. I think in terms of Hero vs Hero it will balance that out, but I don't think every hero is supposed to be balanced to begin with.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that although I understand why they are doing it(outside of spending 150-300 points on a $15 model to spend more on units... yea I said it...) I just don't agree with it. I'm sure some of you don't agree please don't scold me it's just a opinion.

~Also I've been hearing more and more lately that it will be Bretonnia next and not Ogres T_T has anyone else been hearing that or am I cursed.
 
#13 ·
yea i hate that GW are limiting the unique magic item list as i like giving my army unique items
i dont think ogres will be done for a while as bret's and especially wood elves need alot of love as right now they suck (well brets are ok but wood elves just suck)
anyway i want to see what the wood elves magic items are like when they are done as i dont know what i high borne wants with an giant blade or the gold sword (yay i go from I8 to I10 lol)


anyway to the close combat issue the reason i bring 3 bruisers and a tyrant is because 1 of the butchers is a bsb and i put them in my unit of iron guts with full command so insert bsb and slaughtermaster into 2nd rank
 
#14 ·
I suppose personal experiences will differ but both of our local Bret players have been driven into chaos, they really need some help. The all calvary army either destroys or gets stopped dead in its tracks, and it seems more the later down here.

Our only Woad player has been thrashing people ever since 8th. He plays a melee list(yes melee) and it freaking works, sucks though fluff wise. I think his only really strong archer unit is some WWs. His only real weakness is magic heavy list fire/light. (or so he says)

I don't know any of them personally so i can't give you any exact lists but I suppose I could ask them if it crosses my mind next time i see someone.
 
#18 ·
True there is only so much we can do against most gunline magic heavy type lists, although i fear the magic more than the cannons. The most you can do against gunlines is keep trollguts and multiple Toothcrackers, and bring a Ironcurse icon in case they keep TGs dispelled. I think you might try bringing more ogres next time and giving Grax's list(or strategy) a try.

I'd also give it a few more tries before you throw it out the window i run a unit or 23 bulls(same character setup) and it does great for me, but it doesn't turn everything into pickled sausage every game, your bound to have bad games now and then given what we have to work with.
 
#16 ·
i dont really play ogres (i play bretonnians and i hope our book comes out first) but i do realize the need for new ogres, it think it wood be cool to have some type of cyclops, something reminiscent of ancient eastern philosophy where cyclopsi? cyclops? lived in volcanoes and were master metalworkers, it would also allow them to crew some giant cannon type thing that spewed lava, sounds kinda cool to me (at least to kill anyway)
 
#17 ·
cyckops where the greek god zeus people, they gave him lightning and all that, the ogres i think do need something different, aside from cheaper units, they need better special charectors more choice for lords and heroes but they really need to sort out ogres close combat we are meant for combat yet they loose a lot and i always felt that due to their tendenacy to wear gut plates they should come with a 6+ armour save and an ogre exquivilant of scaly skin due to the dense lairs of fat and muscle.
 
#20 · (Edited)
i don't know allot about ogres but there are definitely cyclopean themes in all near eastern mythology, i just think the idea of extremely heavily armored ogres would be awesome, i am thinking like a full body suit of armor with really thick plates on some leaner ogres, not so fat, and i also like the ideas of some new ogre specific weapons like spiked boots and some really spiked iron fists that grant armor piercing, or better yet, killing blow

cant get over the fact that bloodletters get it and ogres dont, the clubs they use are bigger than the men they hit (i also think lances should get it on the charge but that is that)

if GW wanted to take the ogres to a more far eastern theme then they could easily produce half ogre infantry, that have access to rockets or some other eastern innovation, or even Mongol type mercenaries, might be interesting models, with similar stats to chaos chosen and as a special unit (dont know how the matings would work for those but hey...)
 
#21 ·
because as soon a people know they are agasint ogres it is time for the spells that mean initive test or die and most time i forget to take the rune maw banner mostly because i am trying to get as much points as possable on everything as for shooting, helllaster volly gun that can kill a lot of ogres then theres the fact that bulls dont have an armour save so anything can wound them enough of that and soon ogres fall down.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Even then, I've played against that Ogre Deathstar army with my Beastmen, and between a L4 Great Bray-Shaman with Lore of Shadows and a L2 Bray-Shaman with Lore of Beasts, plus some 40-man hordes of Bestigors and Gors (which put together cost the same as that unit of 24 Bulls, btw), you can beat the Ogres at their own game, and pretty reliably, too. The Gors are faster on the I front, and can have the same S/T with a BSB + The Beast Banner, plus spit out a comparable amount of attacks, thanks to Horde formation + AHW's. The Bestigors are at Great Weapon speed, but they wound on a 2+ - the real kicker is that since you have 2 Hordes, one of them is gonna get to mash those Ogres in the flank or the rear. Throw in some Melkoth's Mistifying Miasma to make the Ogres hit on 5+ (or not even get to hit at all if you get them down to a goose egg on WS), some Wyssan's Wildform to make the Gors S 5/T 5 (both signature spells, so you can't not get them), and of course some Pit of Shades to whittle them down before they ever even get to CC, or even Okkam's Mindrazor to have anyone in the army who happens to engage them wound them on 2+, and things are looking bleak for the big fellas. Once I figured this list out, I'm fairly sure Ogres have little chance against me unless I roll like crap for turns at a time, and even then Hatred saves me from that as far as CC is concerned. And it's not like Beastmen is a powerhouse army, though I would argue that it's better than some people give it credit for (no doubt because they insist on trying to run Minotaurs/monsters, which frankly don't work as well as they should; there are plenty of people who see it as a very solid, Horde-heavy army, which frankly is what works) - there are other armies that can do the same or worse to you (*cough* Lizzies *hack* WoC *wheeze*).

I'd like to chime in with my thoughts on what Ogres could use:

1. Rhinox Riders need to be in the main rulebook, and herds of Rhinoxes (Rhinoxen?) by themselves should be considered as a Monstrous Beast unit.

2. Gut Plates need to count as light armor (and Bulls should have the option to upgrade to heavy armor) if you're going to keep the Bulls' price where it is.

3. Ironguts need more goodies to justify their point cost (Ld 8 is nice, but not enough). +1 WS will help, as would a Scaly Skin save of some sort (ain't they tougher than your average Bull?)

4. Maneaters are WAY too expensive, points-wise. They should cost less, and/or get one of their unique weapons for free.

5. Gorgers and Yhetees need a Scaly Skin save of some sort, especially the former.

6. Gnoblars should resemble Goblins more - they don't need to have all the neat upgrades Gobbos do, but for the love of <insert favorite Warhammer deity here>, give them S 3, even if it means hiking up the cost per Gnoblar!

7. I would consider giving the Tyrant S 6. I look at him from my Beastmen lens (as compared to the Doombull), and frankly he's a bit lacking.

8. Giants suck for all factions IMO, but the Ogre one sucks even more (and no, costing 50 points less doesn't quite make up for the fact that HE WILL RUN FROM INFANTRY IF HE GETS HIS TAIL KICKED). Something should be done about that.

9. Hunters need a straight-up re-write. I like what a previous poster mentioned regarding them as a Special Unit, though I think they would fit in a bit better as a Rare.

10. Leadbelchers need to be able to at least make 2 full ranks - their unit size restriction is a major hamstring. Also, the same things I said about Bulls apply to them.

11. I also think they could use a couple more units. More characters would be a decent idea, though they'd probably have to write some new fluff to accomodate them (not that it's an issue, just saying they'd have to work them into the story). I also would like to see a unit of Great Maw-fanatics or something like that (crazed shock troops kind of thing, think Flagellants here), and Ogre Pit Fighters would be a Hero choice to consider (make them challenge-seekers or something).

Anyway, that's my two cents on the subject. I hope they get their new book before Brets, since I think Brets are actually in better shape than they are (ohai, Virtue of Heroism/flying cavalry!).
 
#23 ·
Here is my two cents worth:

1) Hunter.
Give this guy a real hunter ability. Make him able to kill monsters and war beasts more easily. heroic killing blow or multiple wounds V monsters, beasts. Make Hunter take a Str test with his Harpoon instead of the beast.

2) Tyrants are fine. Don't think they should ride Rhinox. But tyrant would look cool on a rhinox chariot :)

3) Slaughter masters and Butchers are fine as well. But I got an idea from someone else of having them able ride on War Shrines to the great Maw. I imagine a huge cart pushed by ogres which bestowes gifts to nearby units as a Chaos warshrine does.

4) Bruisers need more options, pit fighters etc. I think maneaters can change to characters and go here to.

5) CORE. Ogres need to be toughness 5 and at least light armour. There clubs should be able to wield one or two handed. Or if stay the same then a price decrease. Iron guts need a weapon skill upgrade to 4 and maybe killing blow. Gnoblars are fine as they are.

6) SPECIAL. Lead Belchers need to be able to shoot every turn. stay move or shoot and keep the range. Scrap launchers are fine to. Maybe Rhinow riders but I'm not a fan. Yhetes need a ward save or a scout rule and maybe a icy breath weapon.

7) RARE. Gorgers should be able to appear anywhere on the board and not just a table edge (a bit like tomb kings tomb scorpions) that way there stats can stay the same. Slave Giant needs changing alot. Maneaters move to heroes.

8) Change big names as some of them are never used. massive gut bigname to give a ward save V artillery or a Toughness increase. Brawler bigname so the tyrant can crush a monsterous infantry or monster in a head lock ;) that sort of thing.

9) Gut magic overhaul to bring it in line with other lores.

10) And of course some sort of huge model. I'm thinking Maw Shrine or a Rock giant that spews lava.
 
#26 ·
at their current points cost and ability, T5 is not that powerful, especially in 8th edition. I've played some test game changes with different assortment of changes, none of which seem to be impossible to stop.

T5 on Ogres.
Bullcharge with no minimal range.
6+ armor save gut plates(no stacking with magical "gut plates" for characters).
Bulls retaining ogreclub AP bonus when combined with IF or EHW.
Ironguts get +1 str for bullcharge.

I have not used all of those changes at once of course, that would be a bit much. I've also tried giving Bruisers and Tyrants a additional 25 additional magic points. The Bruisers didn't seem to benefit as much as the Tyrant.

That being said, I predict a points reduction, to fit more bull sales into the equation. With a points reduction, and other possible buffs, T5 would more than likely be much.
 
#27 ·
T5 ogres? Your having a laugh having basic ogres at T5, thier durability and size is represented by the fact they have 3 wounds, T5 is overkill. Elite units such as Iron guts i have no problem with T5 but an army wide splurge of T5 would only see further the power creep of armies, as to match that Wood Elves will be demanding S4 bows all the time to deal with T5 Ogres.

To make them work make Ogre Bulls 25pts basic with a 6+ save from a gut plate carrying a hand weapon. Upgrades you can then buy from then on, 2pts for ogre club, 2 pts for IF or EHW and at the end of it your still under 10pts per wound (roughly) for a M6, S4, T4, guy who as well as bull charge will also get a stomp attack. Not forgetting the guy directly behind him also gets to make 3 attacks, thats the equivalent of a normal unit having the fight in extra ranks rule & spears again on top of that.

Would love somthing good to come about for yhetees. I would probably give them an extra attack on the profile to have them fighting with laws etc and not to fussed about defence due to the frost aura. An ability like, if not exactly the same as the trolls vomit would be good, just class it as ice instead of acid.

Rhinox Riders, several months ago i would have said that thse guys are just to big to have a decent number of them in a unit and use in anything under 4k, but GW has gone silly with the big guys all of a sudden so i can see them comming. They could work if kept on chariot bases and the actual rhinox, smaller than a stegadon. But would they work with seperate profiles for the rider and mount and would you have to track wounds on both, or combine the profiles? Im not too sure on how monsterous cavalry would work as iv not used them as of yet, but if the rider dies would you take off a rhinox if it still had 3 wounds? But how could you explain it staying under control and fighting if the rider isnt there to control it. I shal have to check monsterous cav when i finish work.

Would be nice for hunters to have a choice of pets perhaps, like how Dark Eldar beast masters can buy pets. Opens up possibility for flying animal etc. Would be nice if he could join a unit and grant them an ability like Strider or somthing.

As gut magic is bound to change also, it would be nice if having a butcher join a unit gives an ability aswell, Regen on 5+ perhaps, maybe that and somthing else if a lord lvl.

Not sure what ability a Bruiser or Lord could give. More combat orientated though, or more usefull army wide. Hatred perhaps?

Iron guts... First thing id like to see s a better armour save. Heavy armour + gut plate for a 4+ save. Same weapon options as Ogres + the option of great weapons (as now) and even the addtion of halberds. Then they need a rule of thier own, even stubborn will do, even if its only when with the general. But somthing unique would be nice. T5 a possibility or even S5. with all these Augment spells all over the place in 8th edition i dont think people will bat an eyelide to it on the elite unit.
 
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