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I need a tailor-made list

1K views 16 replies 8 participants last post by  Certs 
#1 ·
The situation is this: My friend has fixed up a nasty littl 1000 pointer BA list that totally demolished my Necrons and won against my marines. The fight against the marines was tight as hell. With basically one more hit with melta or plasmacannon I would have won it... But I missed on round 5 and he was saved by the bell and won. I've got about two weeks time to prepare for a revenge. His list is far from competitive (for multiple pretty obvious reasons), but in low points (1000 points) and without me having absolutely not a single TH+SS termie its a bit nasty:

Mephiston
Dante
Sanguinary Priest w/infernus pistol
Sanguinary Guard w/infernus pistol
Assault Squad w/meltagun
Razoback w/LC and TL plasmagun

Now I'm pretty sure he will bring the exact same list and play it the exact same way so, in contrary to my normal modus operandi, I can tailor make a list to kick the blood angel butt. His idea is to usually drop the assault squad into some house or other terrain to baby it backfield and use Mephiston and Dante+SP+SG squad aggressively, aiming to table the opponent.

Any suggestions on how I should proceed to beating him?

My last list was libby, two tactical squads in drop pods, two land speeders, sniper scouts and dreadnought.
 
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#2 ·
If heavy infantry is giving you problems at low points levels, then take 3 vindicators. They'll mop anything caught out in the open, and they're even scary to normal heavy infantry that's used to having that 2+ armour save.

Fill out the rest of your army with a couple troops slots, and anything else you might need.
 
#3 ·
If heavy infantry is giving you problems at low points levels, then take 3 vindicators. They'll mop anything caught out in the open, and they're even scary to normal heavy infantry that's used to having that 2+ armour save.

Fill out the rest of your army with a couple troops slots, and anything else you might need.
I second that,vindicators are nasty.

BTW are you playing in the same points?I think that your list is a bit low compaired to the points your oponent deployed.I dont have my dexes handy right now so i might be mistaken.

Anyway drop those pods and scouts.From the makeup of his list you dont need the pods since he will come to you,and the scouts just dont have what it takes to take out any threats on this list me thinks.Place another dread or a tectical squad in there.
 
#4 ·
In addition to the Vindicators (I would reccomend 2, at that point level they should be more than enough) I would take a small Sternguard Squad in a Pod with Combi-Plasmaguns in order to deal with Mephiston and geneally disrupt your opponents plans. I would reccomend a list looking something like this:

Librarian Vortex of Doom, 5+ Invulnerable save power ***pts
5 Sternguard Combi-Plasmaguns Drop Pod 185
10 Tactical Marines Lascannon Plasmagun Razorback Heavy Bolters 240
10 Tactical Marines Lascannon Plasmagun Razorback Heavy Bolters 240
Vindicator ***
Vindicator ***

995pts.
 
#5 ·
I wouldn't do vortex of doom on a librarian unless he has terminator armor as the power fires like a heavy weapon. Go for smite instead. Assault 4, Str 4 ap 2 is still pretty nice. Then I would use Null Zone to force successful invul saves to be rerolled, or gate of infinity to make him and his squad warp around the battlefield (can even get them out of assault).

I don't have good experience with Vindicators. They scatter a lot and do nothing, especially in low points games. I prefer Predators with Las canon sponons. Land Speeder with Typhoon Missiles can work well too, and they are fast enough to stay out of assault and still fire those missile (which ignore FNP because of instant death str... unless you are shooting at meph). I often take at least 1 vindicator however because the potential for destruction, even if it is only about 1/3 times, is enough to make it a big target.
 
#6 ·
His idea is to usually drop the assault squad into some house or other terrain to baby it backfield
Here's your main target. If you can send two units at once then Meph will only have the opportunity to kill one of them. Can you make points for a third Pod by taking one of the Tacticals down to 5 men with combi-melta? (Give it to the Dread; he doesn't actually need to ride in it.) It'd be hilarious if the DP storm bolters are what finally kills that assault squad, after their Razorback is trashed and Mephiston nukes your Tacticals.

That God-squad is taking serious advantage of a lack of low-AP weaponry. That won't work in bigger games. Meanwhile, can you put multimeltas on those speeders? They should live a long time, seeing as he has only two weapons that can shoot farther than 12", and be able to assist against either Meph or Dante.

Another tactic is to use your Dreadnought. If he can make it through the God-squad's inferno pistol gauntlet then he can kill/tarpit them unaided. Try starting him in reserves and keeping your scouts very close to your table edge. Your opponent will have little choice but to try for them, and with reasonable luck your Dread will arrive on the table with the God-squad in easy charge distance. (Even if the scouts die in the process, he loses a scoring unit as well as you. You also gain 3 kill points to his 1.) Failing that, the smoke launchers are worth a try.

Does the sniper sgt have a power sword/fist, and is the squad near full strength? It's much, much better to charge BA squads with attached priests than to be charged by them. It takes away about half of the squad's damage potential. I don't expect the scouts to kill much but, on the other hand, his squad can't take much (no-armor) damage either. Using a Chaplain instead of a Librarian will help here, too. By doing the charge yourself, you can position him to avoid Dante and wreak "havoc with rerolls" upon the others. Let a power fist sarge shake hands with Dante...the odds are in your favor.
 
#7 ·
On points #1: I left out some of the stuff to simplify the list. One of the speeders had multi-melta and missiles and go squad had banners, pfists and whatnot.

On points #2: I do realize that in 1000 points Meph and Godsquad are borderline overpowered, while in bigger games they are not.

On powerfists: I do not believe in powerfists in this fight. Godsquad has enough attacks to cause more than 10 powerweapon wounds on assault. Powerfist never has the chance to strike.

On Drop Pods: Sadly you cannot take a pod unless you take a full-size Tactical squad. A five-man combi-plasma Sternguard is doable, though.

On Dante: I think the only good way is to shoot him. The god squad has twenty-something power weapon attacks and Dante will curse any Chaplain or libby you throw against him, dropping his WS, A, W and I by one each.
 
#8 ·
Well, if you just want to beat him (and have access to the models), I would suggest that you run vindicators as suggested above. If you run a list similar to the one suggested by Mr. Biscuts (except with rhinos instead of razorbacks - use the additional points to give your sternguards plasma-guns instead of combi-plasmas or take more sternguard), you can try and use the following tactics.

Deploy your vindicators as far forward as possible without being within 18" (assault range) of his god-squad. Deploy your tactical squads near their rhinos, near the vindicators. On the first turn, if he comes at you, pack up the tactical squads and drive away as quick as possible, popping smoke. Then proceed to make him sweat every turn as your vindicators can take out his entire squad in one template, if it hits. If in any turn he decides to try to take out a vindicator instead of going after your troops, you can zip a marine squad towards his assault squad, which a full tactical squad should be able to beat in cc or by shooting.

This way you should get at least 3 vindicator shots off at his squad, and most likely more depending on the terrain and your deployments. With reasonable luck, all it takes is one demolisher cannon round to take out all of the sanguinary guard, and after that your plasma fire and higher model count should be able to take care of dante, mephiston, and the assault squad.
 
#9 ·
I have two Vindicators, so those will definitely make their way to next list. However, deploying them outside god squads range is practically impossible. You see he doesn't ever deploy the god squad. He uses Dantes no-scatter power and DoA rerolls to Deep Strike them exactly where and when HE wants and then inferno-pistols stuff. So my choices are limited to bubble-wrapping the Vindicators with foot-slogging marines and/or deploying them so that when one gets infernoed to hell the other one can drop a pie-plate on top of Dante and his god squad for some "final solution" to those blood-sucking heretics ;)

Furthermore, I think taking one Drop Pod is still good for me, because that is pretty much the only thing that can go where I want. I can use it with troops to deploy myself after his god squad has landed or sans-troops to block lines of sight and travel. The plan is to force him to respond to what I do, instead of waiting for him to pummel me senseless and then respond to that myself.
 
#10 ·
However, deploying them outside god squads range is practically impossible. You see he doesn't ever deploy the god squad. He uses Dantes no-scatter power and DoA rerolls to Deep Strike them exactly where and when HE wants and then inferno-pistols stuff.
If he's shooting at you the turn he deep strikes then he won't be running to re-arrange and spread out his squad. I then recommend that you take a couple plasma cannons (maybe one in each tactical squad). Although they won't one-shot Dante, a direct hit could still spell disaster to this squad right after it deep strikes, killing off lots of sanguinary guard. You'll just have to deploy your army cleverly to make sure that no matter where he lands you have a couple big guns aimed at him.
 
#11 · (Edited)
What i would try out,no quarantees it will work but it holds some promise.

Vanquard vets full squad all with power weaps(or if you have them lightning claws).
2x Tactical squads with plasmagun/missile launcher for objectives.
2x vindicators
Drop pod


Deploy one tac squad to castle in your objective.
Let the vindicators advance on their own and kill what they can.
Once the sanq quard deep strikes you counter charge them with your vanquard.
The other tac squad is in the drop pod to either deploy in support or to throw it on his objective for a last minute grab.

Or drop the drop(huh?)pod and the missile lauchers and give the tacticals plasma cannons.
 
#12 ·
What i would try out,no quarantees it will work but it holds some promise.

Vanquard vets full squad all with power weaps(or if you have them lightning claws).
2x Tactical squads with plasmagun/missile launcher for objectives.
2x vindicators
Drop pod
Like the OP said earlier, assaulting the death squad is probably not the best idea, due to the higher initiative and master-crafted power weapons of the sanguinary guard and heros. Plus, mephiston is S6T6, so the S4T4 vanguards probably won't last long. I think either sternguard with plasma guns or just tacticals with plasma cannons would be ideal.
 
#13 ·
I think at this point level I'm better off taking no close-combat ability at all and just let the Big Guns Roar. Two demolisher cannons, two plasmacannons and a couple of melta/plasmaguns should be enough to do the trick if I just deploy right and don't get horribad dierolls with the template guns. It certainly won't be an all-comers list, but its not supposed to be.
 
#14 ·
Only dante has higher I,sang guard and Vanguard have the same stat line.You get 4 attacks by dante and then you strike 40 pw attacks on the charge at them,even if you have only a couple of survivors its worth it IMHO to put them out of the table,then the rest of the army can do the rest.

Mephiston cant be with the sanquard the Op he uses them with dante to deepstrike and attack one of his vindies.That leaves mephiston somewhere else,which mean that indeed the tacticals and remaining vindie can fire at him a bit.

I dont advocate this the best list but as i said it holds some promise.
 
#15 ·
Only dante has higher I,sang guard and Vanguard have the same stat line.

I dont advocate this the best list but as i said it holds some promise.
Actually if he gets off a charge his God Squad has Furious Charge due to attached Sanguinary Priest. All those S5 I5 attacks will demolish a whole squad of Vanguard Vets before they can get to strike. If I get the charge, then its more even, but all in all, the Vanguard Vets run at considerable disadvantage.
 
#17 ·
reroll dark angels and show up with ravenwing.

sammael in land speeder w/ tl ac & tl hb
3 typhoon speeders w/ mm
3-man biker squad w/ 2 melta, pweapon/meltabomb; speeder w/ ac & hb
3-man biker squad w/ 2 melta, pweapon/meltabomb; speeder w/ ac & hb; attack bike w/ mm
1000 exactly (the pweapon/meltabomb not really needed but was part of my all-comers build)

kill the razorback and then just let him futilely chase you for the rest of the game as you take pot shots at him.

otherwise... shrug, vindis and plasma as others have said.
 
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