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Heavy Squad Problem

773 views 15 replies 10 participants last post by  Lost Nemesis 
#1 ·
Hi. My friend who is playing IG has a problem with heavy squad (I mean this 2 man with lascannon or other heavy weapon in normal troop squad).
Imagine that situation- all troops have been killed, only heavy squad has left. Now, if one of them die, can the second heavy squad member do something? In our games his lascannon is immobilised when only one of the squad left. Is this legal? Or maybe when only one left he can do nothing? We can't find this in IG codex.
 
#3 ·
the large base is just for modeling convienence. if you only have 1 guy left in the hw team, then you can still function as normal.

and they don't loose their lasguns when they become hw teams, so if you move you can still fire lasgun (woohoo).

as for the HW become immobilized... interesting house rule, but it's no where in the books.
 
#5 ·
Originally posted by GuardinGnome@Dec 11 2004, 21:31
As long as you've got a man left, theres always hope. That one Lascannon shot can really turn the tide! Keep firing!
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ain't it the truth!

i remember one game where a lone surviver of a squad turned the tide of the battle! that was one lil missle launcher that i bet my friend wish he finished off!


moral of the story... kill a squad down to the last man!!
 
#7 ·
Just as an add on to this query, hope no one minds.

If I convert a normal base gaurdsmen to hold a heavy bolter and one to hold the ammo, to save money of course. If someone used mind war on the one with a Heavy Bolter, the ammo holding one could still shott as if with a heavy bolter yes?

Hope you understood the query, its just that there are some very picky people at GW.
 
#8 ·
Originally posted by Archaon@Dec 12 2004, 14:28
Just as an add on to this query, hope no one minds.

If I convert a normal base gaurdsmen to hold a heavy bolter and one to hold the ammo, to save money of course. If someone used mind war on the one with a Heavy Bolter, the ammo holding one could still shott as if with a heavy bolter yes?

Hope you understood the query, its just that there are some very picky people at GW.
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AFAIK, both the Gunner and Loader are both capable of firing the heavy bolter. The codex doesn't distinguish between the two and refers to them both simply as "guardsmen" forming a crew.
 
#9 ·
there's been no offical rule on this. personally i play that the HB would be lost. what would be the point of the "fire supperiority rule" in which if you wound the whole squad, you select a model to take the save. and if you picked the gunner, i'd be kinda irked if the guy said "now his loader is going to use the weapon".
 
#10 ·
For a reference like that, something that targets a specific model, I think the intention of the spell or ability is to kill that model (and what they are using / carrying) So I would agree with BoxAnt. As far as normal casualties go, anyone in left in the squad should be able to take up the guns.
 
#11 ·
This rule inevitably turns into a huge flame war on Portent. Because there is no official rule by GW (what! guys get on the ball already) as the whether either of the HW crew can fire the heavy weapon, you have to just agree with your opponent ahead of time. Personally, I model my heavy weapons on cavalry bases and just take another regular guardsman and play the HW as a stand-alone weapon. My opponent has no problem with this as it's much less confusing.
 
#13 ·
On a related note, on page 26 in the 4th Edition Warhammer 40k rulebook, it states, "Under normal circumstances, powerful weapons will be picked up by other members of the unit...so it is perfectly fair for a player to avoid taking casualties on (for example) heavy weapons or squad leaders if he doesn't want to"
 
#14 ·
It makes sense as long as there are as many crew left as there are guns you can still shoot. An infantry squad therefore will always be able to fire its heavy weapon untill the last man is dead or the squad is fleeing [unless you choose to not remove the HW trooper last]. With HW squads You only start removing the guns once four men are dead. The extra three crew gamewise are merely usefull cannon fodder.

It helps to have the loader removable from the base.
 
#15 ·
well of course if you take "normal" casulties from shooting, CC for example... you choose who dies. so you just don't take HW/SW guys, opting for the poor grunt w/ the lasgun to die instead.

however, we're talking about what happens when the specific "model" w/ the HW dies. this doesn't happen alot, but can happen when:

1. Every member of the squad takes a wound, therefore allowing the shooter to "pick" which model takes a save. if the model fails, that model is removed.

2. Psyk Powers like "Mind War" that target a specific model.

3. Only models w/ in LOS and Range can be killed by shooting. so if a HW gunner was the only model in LOS of enemy fire, then only HE can die.


under these situations, rules get a lil fuzzy when it comes to heavy weapon teams... if the gunner bites it... can the other guy take over?

i guess technically there's is no distinction between gunner/loader, they're just both the "heavy weapon team"... so that's one argument for the HW surviving...

however, when the "model" who is shooting the gun dies... you'd think the HW dies... that's the arguement for the HW team being lost...

at first i thought that the HW would be lost... but the more i think about it... i'm kinda leaning to it surviving, simply because the Codex does not say anything about there being a "loader or gunner", simply that 2 guardsmen form a HWteam. and since you only need 1 member of the HWteam to fire... you'd think that if one dies, the HW would still function... ?
 
#16 ·
I would say if the gunner is specifically killed, the "loader" would be able to take his place. Think about it - in any war movie, game, whatever, the characters always pick up their fallen comrade's guns, or take the place at a turret, etc.

Why is that going to be different in this case? They simply say that they are a "Heavy Weapon Crew," so if one were to die the other one would just scramble over to take his place.



 
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