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Are shoota boyz worth it?

2K views 30 replies 16 participants last post by  podg69 
#1 ·
I'm a new ork player so any adive will be appreciated. Is it worth it to take shoota boyz?
 
#2 ·
I take them in small mobs. One, I can max them out on big shootas and not lose any attacks on the charge like with Slugga boyz. Two, they can sit back and provide a mob up unit for the CC mobs that might break and run and thus return them to the fight.
 
#3 ·
Depends on how you use them, really. They make wonderful mobbing up units, as was mentioned previously. Keep 'em small, give 'em a nob with another special weapon and a bosspole, and get to work.
Another wonderful option you can do is to max the squad out completely (that's right, 30 boyz), park them on an objective, and then just sort of dare your opponent to try to take it from you. 30 bodies are ALOT to chew through, and the mass shoota fire is bound to wither through anything that happens to make the mistake of standing in front of you.
There's bound to be a few people that will complain about them (how easy it is for MEq lists to save against them, for example), but orks need fire support while the rest of the list is slogging it towards the front lines, and the cheap shootaboyz do the job just fine.
 
#5 ·
Warboss BigNutz said:
No never, don't even think of using them. There is really no point to them, Orks can't shoot we all know that so whats the point of Rapid Firing when there twice as good in assalt. If you want some "shoota boys" put three big shootas in a slugga boys mob.
I will admit, I tend to run a Snakebite army list or a Feral list when I play, so I suppose me being used to having Huntas out there armed with shootas that they can actually hit with might change up the way I look at things, but still.
Statistically, an ork has around a 32% chance of hitting something with each shot (my math is a bit hazy, so you'll have to forgive me as I yank these numbers out of the air). That seems horrible until you realize that with a maxed out squad of shootas you'll have anywhere from around 10 to 20 shots hitting a round (depending on if you shoot 24" or 12"). That's a pretty impressive number. Granted, if you're playing against Marines or their equivilent, you're going to see half of those hits being saved and then only half of them wounding or there abouts, that's only one to four idjits being taken down a round (once again, if my numbers are flawed, please correct me). Add in the shots from big shootas and rokkitz and these numbers will change up slightly.
However.
Against horde armies (you know, most of the armies that don't cart around a 3+ save?), the shoota does wonderfully. It decimates gaunts (poor little buggers), makes panzees both 'nilla and spiked fall over dead, and does some truly horrible things against fellow orks and guards. Once again, factor in the three special weapons we can cart about (granted, only one or two big shoota shots from a group of 9 will hit, but still...), and things just contenue to look up.
Also, as I said before, park a group of 30 on an objective in some cover (you ARE playing with some cover on that board, right?) and things just get better. You'll contenue to chew through the enemy as they get closer and closer, and if they assault you, you're still orks! And if one of 'em falls, there's a good two dozen more just itching to take their place.
I'll go back to using the imagery I've used before. One ork, armed with his trusty shoota, will not be able to hit the side of a barn. If he was standing IN the barn. And was pointed against towards the wall.
You get 29 of his buddies together with him, on the other hand, and the pure hot wall of dakka death will be enough to chew through not only the barn, but the farmer's house, and a good deal of his fields. A maxed out squad of shoota boyz armed with 4 big shootas (give the nob one of 'em) is going to be shooting out 64 shots in rapid fire range. Those will hurt. Alot.
So, once again, they make wonderful mobbing up units (keep them in the back, and have them give supporting fire to the footslogging boyz) and objective holders. Heck, the Badmoon army list relies heavily on ork shooting. Don't let the stats of an individual boy blind you to the true strength of the ork army.
Numbers, numbers, and more numbers. *nods* [/rant]
 
#6 ·
Well I look at them this way They basicly are the same as a BS 3 str 3 gun.
hit on 5+ wound on 4+ compared to hit on 4+ wound on 5+. or hit on 5 wound on 3 hit on 4 wound on 4. It is basicly a guardsmen with AP 5 and they cxan get Big Shootas. not tomention good for mobbing up.
 
#7 ·
No, shoota boys are never worth it. If they are a point cheaper I would consider getting them. Everybody says, hey they cant hit but with that many shots somethings bound to happen, right? NO! They are so expensive for such a terrible shooting unit. Cover fire you say? There really is no such thing as cover fire in 40k, its not that advanced of a game. Firing at enemy unit does not pin them or make them retreat as easily as it does in real life, so shut up about cover fire. A 30 shoota boy unit would EASILY get its ass handed to it by a unit of 10 marines. 30 orks shooting at marines. 30 Shots, 10 hits, 5 wounds, 1.66 marines dead. Thats terrible. Thats roughly 25 points that it has killed, and when you consider that the 30 shoota boy ork unit costs you roughly 240 points, it will never come close to earning a fraction of its points back. A 10 marines squad on the other hand, shooting 10 bolters, 6.66 hits, 3.33 wound and 3.33 dead, has just killed 24 points while only costing roughly 150 points! And they are more durable and have a better leadership.
 
#9 ·
They don't hit often and they are not as good as Slugga boys in CC. Exactly the reason that I take a small mob and give them 3 big shootas. They don't even bother to close with the enemy. They just sit back in big shoota range and fire. An average of 3 S5 hits per turn from a supporting unit. They are good to park in front of weapon batteries to keep them from getting assaulted as well. The 3 big shootas gives them the range to provide supporting fire while sitting in a defensive role.

Giving a slugga boy a special weapon other than a burna is stupid. If you are going to lose an attack from not being armed with 2 CC weapons, then at least trade that for a power weapon attack.
 
#10 ·
if you are gonna take any type of shooting support, take units of flash gits. if you want ot go crazy against a marine army, take ten gits with all upgrades screw the rokkits. drive up in a truck, 20 assault shots, no stupid marine armour saves. then mop up the rest in combat.
or have small tankhunting squads, four rokkits, led by a nob with rokkits and tankbusta bombs and/or a power claw
 
#11 ·
Shoota Boyz are basically Marines in shooting, better than Marines in assault.

Space Marines are 15 points a pop. 2 Shoota boyz is 14 points a pop.

SMs have a 50% chance of hitting something with their bolter fire.

Shoota Boyz, two of them, have a 33% chance individually, and both of them have at least a 50% to hit at least once (BS 2, essentially twin-linked, they might as well be Tau gun drones).

Both guns have the same stats, so essentially 2 Shoota Boyz are a marine with a chance of hitting twice in shooting, so they're slightly better.

I don't see the problem.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Sandhawk03 said:
SMs have a 50% chance of hitting something with their bolter fire.

I don't see the problem.
I do, marines have a 67% chance of hitting.

2 Boyz have a:

11,1% chance of hitting both times

44.4% chance of hitting once (If i calcaulated right)

44.4% chance of missing both times

So a 55.5% chance of doing something.
 
#13 ·
Let me see.

Marines have a 66.67% chance of hitting.

Two Shoota Boys have


11
12
13
14
15
16
x4
51
52
53
54
55
56
x2

16/36 chance of hitting ONCE with two shots. (44.44%)
04/36 chance of hitting TWICE with two shots. (11.11%)
16/36 chance of missing BOTH shots. (44.44%)

Exactly like the previous poster said. When you consider a marine has a 66.66% chance of hitting once, and the two orks have a 44.44% chance to hit once, and the 11.11% chance can be doubled (for comparison reasons) so they equal out with hitting power. This means they have the same hitting power. The marines have an AP5 instead of an AP6, so this gives them an advantage over some armies (eldar, IG, DE, some tyranid.). And some players (including myself) would rather have the same thing in one neat package.

Now we compare the durability of the two. Marines are obviously just as fragile as an ork when getting hit with something strengh 6 or higher with an AP of 3. Against standard shooting we can compare the two.

A Marine getting hit with a S3 AP- BS3 weapon.
.5 chance of hitting, .16 chance of wounding,.053 chance of killing.

An Ork getting hit with a S3 AP- BS3 weapon.
.5 chance of hitting, .16 chance of wounding,.133 chance of killing.

This is getting hit by a lasgun, but you most remember most standard weapons fire has atleast an AP6, so orks would be even more vulnerable.

When you compare the morale values of the two, it would be arguable what is better: WAAAGH tests or They shall know no fear. Many of you want to use the shoota boys at small squad sizes, so this really equals out their leadership values. It would be nearly impossible to evaluate their leadership qualities because of the sheer amount of variables, but we can be sure they are both very tough units to break.

And two shoota boys cost a point more than marines.

So when we compare the two, roughly the same fire power, slightly in favor of the marines. Durablity drastically depends on what type of weapon is firing at them. Standard weapons fire have a remote chance of ever killing marines, but weapons like rockets have the same chance as killing either. A slugga boy is actually slightly better than a space marine (if neither get the charge) so two shoota boys are probably just a bit better than space marine in combat. I would honestly look into using shoota boys if they were a point cheaper, but as they are now they just don't compare statistically.
 
#14 ·
If you want to compare apples to oranges, go right ahead. Here's a few more comparisions that you forgot to include.

Chance that a 10 strong unit of shoota boyz with 3 big shootas will hit with more than 3 big shoota shots in a turn: 34.9%
Chance that a marine squad with a heavy bolter will hit with more than 3: 0%

Number of Big shoota shots that can be fired on a turn that the above unit moves: 9
Number of Heavy Bolter shots the marines can fire on the turn that they move: 0
 
#15 ·
I take the chance that shoota boys (being more of them) have a higher maximum amount of possible hits, and that is rounded in to the factor. Also, people make 5 man marine units JUST to sit back and shoot with a ml/hb/etc so it doesn't affect them. In order for shoota boys to earn their points back, they need to shoot (with a lot of luck, even with moving and firing big shootas) and get into combat and get lucky as well. That kind of kills it. Even though they can move and shoot their heavy weapons doesn't give them a distinct advantage due to what they have to do to compare to the marines.
 
#17 ·
Gorefield said:
heh, good to be back here.

I think all these stats and numbers are quite irrelevant. Shoota boyz are worth it (IMO) for one reason: the look on your opponent's face when you claim: "Im shooting at your 5 guyz. I need 60 dices".

lol................., i agree :p
 
#19 ·
all i know is that i will usually take a whole mob of shoota boys, for around 100 points with no nob and 2 big shootas and a launcha. Since i fight necrons i will march these boys right up to the front line and have them take shots for the storm , scar , and slugga boys behind them. plus with a 4+ wound on those expensive necrons he cant afford to not to deal with them sooner or later because they will all go down sooner or later.
 
#20 ·
dagreengrot said:
all i know is that i will usually take a whole mob of shoota boys, for around 100 points with no nob and 2 big shootas and a launcha. Since i fight necrons i will march these boys right up to the front line and have them take shots for the storm , scar , and slugga boys behind them. plus with a 4+ wound on those expensive necrons he cant afford to not to deal with them sooner or later because they will all go down sooner or later.
Ahem. A whole mob with 2 big shootas and a rokkit launcha for 100 points? Where? 10 boys with 2 big shootas and 1 RL costs 101 points sunshine.

If they shot at a unit of necrons, hmmm, .27 + .22 + .27 = .76 necrons dead per turn. In combat they might do a little better. The necrons can use one turn of firing to pretty much kill most of the unit and make them run. I think you need to rethink your math and realize that it is quite easy for a necron unit to practically ignore your overexpensive unit of retards with guns.
 
#21 ·
Well.. it looks like everyone is pretty much split down the middle on shoota boyz. I guess since I already made the models (before I posted this thread) I'll just go ahead and take a mob of 30 and see how they do. Thanks for all the advice, especially the guys who took the time to do the math.
 
#22 ·
If you wanted you could strap some extra gun barrels to those shoota boyz and make them more dakka flash gits, which I personally have found to be very effective in small units with no special weapons. Remember those stats above, and then make it Assault 2 instead of Rapid Fire.

Nice.
 
#23 ·
Sandhawk03 said:
If you wanted you could strap some extra gun barrels to those shoota boyz and make them more dakka flash gits, which I personally have found to be very effective in small units with no special weapons. Remember those stats above, and then make it Assault 2 instead of Rapid Fire.

Nice.
I was planning on filling out my elites choices with two stormboyz mobs and an 'ard boy mob. I'm not sure if I want one mob of 30 shoota boyz, or two mobs of 15-20 shoots boyz.
 
#24 ·
think about who you are playing and what type of army they have. if they are a shooty army, i would mass up the boyz into one big mob. why? because when those templates land on them, they are less likely to break. of course, breaking them into two is also not a bad idea because it gives your opponent two targets to blast at instead of one.
but! agianst a choppy army, like nids etc...i would split them, but keep them close so that they can mob up if neccesary.

but alas, i usually do not use shoota boyz....orks simply cant shoot and i dig the choppa :D
 
#25 ·
bulldoglopez said:
I was planning on filling out my elites choices with two stormboyz mobs and an 'ard boy mob. I'm not sure if I want one mob of 30 shoota boyz, or two mobs of 15-20 shoots boyz.
Stormboyz?

Have you used them? They're good (just like any ork) but they're fragile for their point value and don't come in large enough mobs to, in my experience, be worth it. If you play with a lot (A LOT) of cover, by all means bring them, but otherwise I think you'll find that the fast attack choices do what they do and do it better.
 
#26 ·
I would go with two 15 unit mobs. Why? More big shootas / rokkits, and it also gives the enemy play incentive to shoot at them instead of your much more precious units. which means the shoota boys are getting their job done.
 
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