Librarium Online Forums banner

army concept..what do you think of this strategy?

980 views 14 replies 7 participants last post by  Warmaster Phthisis 
#1 ·
hi, I'm just forming my vision of how I want my army to work and so I thought I'd present to you all the strategy that I'm thinking of employing with this army as I form it.

using a mechanized theme, all units, save the spare sniper squad, in wave serpents. deploy dire avengers forward within range for there shuriken catapults to fire upon disembarking. they charge or are charged, then I reinforce with howling banshees and striking scorpions. all the serpents and falcons are tooled up with either starcannons or bright lances.

is this too 1 dimensional or would this do well?
 
#2 ·
I've played similar armies, the SC isn't really a killer weapon but it works ok, make sure to grab some Falcons as well, if only to absorb some anti-tank fire power. The DA's work as a good shield for your HB's and SS's too so they can assult without getting worked over at range first.
 
#3 ·
yeah I'm thinking of going kinda heavy on the dire avengers, pulling up with a few squads of them and unloading, firing 2 shots from each, then next turn 2 more shots plus they can assault as well is just great, and they're likely to be ignored if I drop some howling banshees or striking scorpions off as well, I'm thinkin.
 
#4 ·
artificer knoll said:
yeah I'm thinking of going kinda heavy on the dire avengers, pulling up with a few squads of them and unloading, firing 2 shots from each, then next turn 2 more shots plus they can assault as well is just great, and they're likely to be ignored if I drop some howling banshees or striking scorpions off as well, I'm thinkin.
AAAAH. Don't take ANY dire avengers. They aren't worth it. You can use striking scorpions if you want the twelve inch rapid fire (pistols do that, I believe). But the shurikat is so weak that it isn't worth putting any points more than you have to. If you really want it, take guardians, and allow them to get in front by sitting back and shooting for a turn with the tanks. If you use dire avengers, you'll shoot, doing next to nothing. Then the enemy'll charge, killing the whole unit. Then the scorpions and banshees will arrive, to actually do some damage. Or you could unload all 3 squads, in which case the avengers will be ignored, but the scorpions and banshees will be murdered in which case you're screwed. Dire avengers are NOT a worthwhile aspect. However, if you want powerful close range weaponry, warp spiders are EXCELLENT choices.
 
#6 ·
If you want to fight a mechnised themed Eldar army I would recommend playing Beil-tan. That way you could make the best use of the waveserpants with the aspect warriors. Transporting troops is fairly expensive for eldar. The transports are expensive and the troops are poor when compared to other armys. Fleet of Foot is also lost when a transport is used. Numbers are the important thing when it comes to eldar troops IMHO.
 
#7 · (Edited)
yes, I've decided on biel-tan pretty solidly.. when I read the biel-tan entry in the craftworld codex the first time, that's when I was sold on playing eldar. I really love howling banshees, the models are just gorgeous and having them as well as the other aspect warriors as troops choices is just too good. :)

you're right, our transports are really expensive, but they are, in my opinion, the best in all of 40k. beyond having great rules, they look just awesome. one of the greatest things about our transports is the fact that it has 12/12/10 armor meaning those pesky tau infantry rifles dont have any chance whatsoever of bringing down our skimmers like they can with rhinos and, to a lesser extent chimerae. (I play vs tau alot)

I assume when you say our troops are poor vs other armies troop choices you're referring to a vanilla eldar list with the troops being of the guardian varieties and dire avengers? as biel-tan, the troops are really the strong point of the armylist it seems, which makes the best mechanized eldar army out there, well, maybe along with saim-hann, but I dont know anything 'bout them.
 
#8 ·
You've got the idea. With BT, you don't need numbers since your have arguably the best CC troops for their points in the game (actually, they're tied with wyches, possibly). Point is, 5 tanks moving in near a section of the enemies forces is beyond what they can deal with. On the next turn, unload the troops from the surviving tanks, and move the tanks AWAY FAST. Then shoot and charge w- the infantry. Really scorpions and banshees and dragons are going to be the main troops you put in the tanks (the first 2 more than the third) and you should support them with warp spiders, and something long ranged (reapers, vypers, and warwalkers)

Having long range support is imperitive in a biel-tan mechanized force. It provides the enemy with a choice: shoot the tanks loaded with aspect warrriors who will butcher your troops or shoot the warwalkers/dark reapers who are slaughtering their forces from a distance. This dual-threat is amazingly effective.
 
#9 ·
TheWamp... Your comments on the weakness of the shuriken aren't always true. Yes, lots and lots and LOTS of people play SM or CSM armies, which can take a ton of shurikat shots and take few to no casualties. However, if you regularly play against armies besides SM and CSM and their 4T and 3+ save, like I do, you will notice that shurikats are actually really effective. Orks for example: the rapid fire of a squad of dire avengers can tear through orks, where alot of aspect warriors would have a good deal of trouble. Heck, I've had shurikats take out orky vehicles before. YES dire avengers are a waste of time against the armies that most people play. NO, plz don't ignore these under rated warriors. And if you do decide to take em... FEAR THE POWER ARMOUR! FEAR IT!!!!
 
#10 ·
I come from playing an IG infantry company type army, so shuriken catapults are alot more powerful than the lasguns I'm used to :p still I'm going for a full on h2h mechanized force..gonna use mainly striking scorpions with a squad of banshees to do my hand to hand work and leave the fire support/AT to the tanks in my list (3 falcons and 3 wave serpents)
 
#11 ·
OblivionClaimed said:
TheWamp... Your comments on the weakness of the shuriken aren't always true. Yes, lots and lots and LOTS of people play SM or CSM armies, which can take a ton of shurikat shots and take few to no casualties. However, if you regularly play against armies besides SM and CSM and their 4T and 3+ save, like I do, you will notice that shurikats are actually really effective. Orks for example: the rapid fire of a squad of dire avengers can tear through orks, where alot of aspect warriors would have a good deal of trouble. Heck, I've had shurikats take out orky vehicles before. YES dire avengers are a waste of time against the armies that most people play. NO, plz don't ignore these under rated warriors. And if you do decide to take em... FEAR THE POWER ARMOUR! FEAR IT!!!!
vs orks, I would still never take dire avengers. Many reasons:
1: a smart ork player will never let you get in such a position that you can kill every ork within 12". This means that the avengers get 1 volley off. They aren't paying for their points with that. 2: striking scorpions charging boys is far and away more effective than shurikats.
3:the aspect warriors do have pistols, which are almost as effective as the shurikat, but wielded by a much more capable aspect,
4:I ALWAYS take at least two twin shurikannon vypers which are far and away more effective than shurikats, so avengers are somewhat redundant in a face-all army.
5: avengers have 2 big size problems: they are too expensive for small squads and aren't allowed to take sufficient numbers for large squads. Guardians (without a weapon team) fulfill this roll much more effectively.
6: The range of the shurikat is short enough that you really have to waste a tank on the avengers, if you want to be sure they'll get their shots off.

Really, for any purpose, there are better units than avengers, IMO. Yes, they can be effective in a perfect situation, but for the points, something else can be more effective.
 
#12 ·
And a smart Eldar player will get into any position he darn well pleases. A smart Eldar player decides when and where battles occur. A smart eldar player can greatly influence where almost any other player moves their units. A smart eldar player will understand that for the amount you are allowed to fit into a wave serpent or falcon, Dire Avengers are a better choice.
 
#13 ·
You’ve probably heard this in heaps of other threads but make sure you arm the twin-linked wave serpents with the one shot weapons and the falcons with weapons which compliment the pulse laser. You will probably have the assult troops in the wave serpents, but just in case, I find that matching a transport's weapon with the squad inside is a bad idea. eg. fire dragons + bright lance wave serpant. You will loose heaps of anti-armour with one lasscannon shot. Maybe you all think I'm pedantic but hey, all the little things help.

Maybe you are considering a Seer squad in a falcon. To me this would seem a good idea, although getting a falcon close to the enemy may not be recommended. The other really awesome tactic is to put your farseer (with fortune) in with your Striking Scorps. Re-rolling your 3+ armour saves makes this squad incredibly good. Don't underestimate the Striking Scorps. IMHO they are a much better choice than the Banshees. More consistant and resiliant.
 
#15 ·
Well, I'm not an Eldar player, but I spent years playing against Eldar and I can tell you what a worst-case scenario would be from an opponents point of view.

The Eldar are a unique army in that every piece of it is highly specialized, and so the key to using the Eldar isnt to use every unit for exactly what it was meant to do. Many Eldar players try to cheese out taking 3 wraithlords and lots of Dark Reapers and star cannons everywhere. That can be effective but only against one type of army and only if they havent already figured you out. From your posts its pretty obvious that youre not that type of player anyway. :)

Ok, a mechanized Eldar army is good, but the only realy way to get it done is Saim-Han. Wave Serpents can be a great idea when you have one or two, but trying to put your whole army in Wave Serpents is right out of the question. Theyre very expensive, dont have much in terms of weaponry, and dont contribue to your overall strategy except to get that squad across the field in one turn. For any other army, a Wave Serpent would be amazing, but when everything you have can go twice as fast as everything the enemy had and for the most part can ignore terrain, Wave Serpents arent all that great. Good for one or two units, but in massive quantities theyre a point sink.

Here is my advice to you and all Eldar players who are constructing army lists out there for what your opponent really doesnt want to see on the other side of the board from themselves.

First, avoid the urge to build your army from the Aspect Warriors up! Youre not Space Marines, youre more like Imperial Guard with Space Marine allies (which is one of the deadliest team ups in the game) and so dont fight it. Start simple. Farseer HQ and two large squads of guardians are essential. So many Eldar armies forget these core units and go straight for Aspect Warriors. Go ahead, add warlocks to the Guardians, and while youre at it add a weapon platform to the guardian defenders too. Now feel free to add your Rangers, but take a full squad too because youre going to need it. Now you have a solid core. These 40 guardians are going to be your multi-purpose units, able to handle any combat role. This is why theyre so important. They can take a lot of hits and they can do anything. The Aspects that you do take are going to need them.

Ok, so the idea of your army is mechanized, so you want to get across the board quick. Here's where the wave serpents come in handy, but you dont want too many. Theyre large and get in the way and in large numbers they become problematic. So I say take 2 wave serpents. There are only two units in the whole Eldar list that I would say actually require a wave serpent transport. Striking Scorpions dont have fleet of foot and will take massive casualties hoofing it, but once theyre in assault theyre nasty! So dont wait, get them stuck in first using a Wave Serpent transport, but be sure to take the Exarch. The other unit is Fire Dragons. Fire Dragons are really overlooked by a lot of Eldar players, but 10 of them firing into any unit is going to cause DAMAGE! Remember that they can fire on the turn they get out of the serpent too. However, selecting both of these to put in your two wave serpents will be rough on you. Pick two units either Fire Dragons or Striking Scorpions and use them at the same time.

Now to finish out your mobile forces. Guardian jetbikes are great, and used in large quantities they can be very damaging and put incredible pressure on your foes. I'd strongly advise two squads of jetbikes. One full squadron of Vypers is a must also, as they will add highly mobile fire support.

Heavy support can be the most imporant selections in an Eldar force. A Falcon is a must! A wraithlord is a normal choice as well, but with all the plasma and hidden powerfists abound its not going to be too effective. If youre going for raw firepower, a second Falcon or one or two squadrons of war walkers can be positively withering!

So far you have an HQ, a solid core of troops, the ability to get 4 hard units across the table and in your enemy's face in the first or second turn, and a withering fire base. What more could an Eldar player ask for? If you still have points burning a hole in your pocket, buy more guardians! You can never have too many guardians. If you want, a unit of Howling Banshees is good too, but run them along the ground behind the Wave Serpents and use the front units to lock in the Bashees' target in assault for your charge.

This is a well balanced army, able to control the field and deal with any army. A good idea is to swoop forward with your Serpents, Bikes, and Vypers and get in their faces. Move forward with the guardians and the weapons platforms along with the Farseer and follow up, while the Falcon and walkers unload all they can ignoring enemy fire. Think of it this way, the fast forces are the nail and the guardians are the hammer. You create a weakness in the line with the Aspect Warriors and then exploit it with the guardians and your farseer while anything not getting clobbered gets shot. This is very difficult to defend againt and even more difficult to attack.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top