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1850 Alpha Legion (Darn you Wolf_Pack!)

3K views 26 replies 8 participants last post by  Caluin 
#1 · (Edited)
So... after spending so long helping Wolf_Pack, I now have a hankering for creating my own Fabius Bile list. Considering that my last list was far too top heavy with the Bikers, I decided to retry a new list, and this is what I came up with.

Comments and criticisms are welcome!

This is the current list, as of 9-18-2005.
HQ - 229 points {12% of army}
Fabius Bile - 114 points
EDITS - Hard to edit this guy. Sorry.

Chaos Leiutenant -115 points
Mark of Chaos Undivided
Power Weapon
Kai Gun
Daemonic Aura
Infiltration
Move Through Cover
EDITS - Removed unnecessary items and skills. Flight dropped, since he shouldn't need to move much.


TROOPS - 936 points {50% of army}
Chaos Space Marines - Two groups, each 225 points, total 450.
Ten {10} Chaos Space Marines
Enhanced Warriors {10}
Infiltrators {10}
Bolt Pistol + CCW {7}
Flamer {2}
Upgrade to Aspiring Champion {1}
Bolt Pistol {1}
Power Fist {1}
Daemonic Strength {1}
EDITS - Frag grenades removed. Figure if they're going to be charging something in cover, the Flamers will soften them up enough to not be a big deal.

Chaos Space Marines - Two groups, each 243 points, total 486.
Ten {10} Chaos Space Marines
Enhanced Warriors {10}
Infiltrators {10}
Frag Grenades {10}
Bolt Pistol + CCW {7}
Plasma Pistol {2}
Upgrade to Aspiring Champion {1}
Bolt Pistol {1}
Power Fist {1}
Daemonic Strength {1}
EDITS - Melta Guns dropped for Plasma Pistols. For good this time.


ELITES - 210 points {11% of army}
Obliterators X 3
EDITS - Droped the Raptors in favor of these guys. The Raptors bugged me for some reason, and I think the Oblits will complement the army quite well.


HEAVY SUPPORT - 472 points {26% of army}
Chaos Space Marine Havocs - Two groups, 236 points, total 472.
Seven {7} Chaos Havocs
Mark of Chaos Undivided {7}
Tank Hunters {7}
Infiltrators {7}
Missile Launchers {4}
Upgrade to Aspiring Champion {1}
Bolt Pistol {1}
Power Sword {1}
EDITS - Dropped one marine, added a Champion with a Power Sword. Will help in case they get attacked in CC, and adds a needed leadership boost.


So that's the list. What do ya'll think of this one? The idea is a crack team of Alpha Legionarres that have spent time infiltrating the Iron Warrior's ranks, and were eventually rooted out. In an effort to keep the Iron Warriors from declaring open war, the Alpha Legion declared no knowledge of the team, and are aiding the Iron Warriors in hunting the team down to show they had no involvement.

So, on the run from both the Iron Warriors and their original legion, the band runs from world to world, trying to stay out of the reach of those hunting them. On the way, they meet up with Fabius Bile, who agrees to offer them a measure of sanctuary, in return for being his puppets. Having no choice, they agree.

The list has no armour elements, as you see. The band had to flee and didn't have time to take anything that would give away their positions - no Dreads, no Rhinos, no Preds, nothing but the weapons that they carry. Fabius Bile brings the one tank to the list, with his poor man's retinue and the Rhino Transport.
 
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#2 ·
I don't want to play Devils Advocate, but don't you supposedly roll for enhanced CSM if you have Fabius Bile in your army, just before the battle?

Then, I would drop the Dirge Caster and mutated hull instead. It's a bit more expensive, but helps a lot.
 
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#3 ·
When_Black_Roses_Bloom said:
I don't want to play Devils Advocate, but don't you supposedly roll for enhanced CSM if you have Fabius Bile in your army, just before the battle?
Yes, that's correct, but you still have to pay for the right to roll for each squad. It's an upgrade you give each unit you want to roll for, then at the beginning of each mission, you roll to see what type of enhancement you got.

When_Black_Roses_Bloom said:
Then, I would drop the Dirge Caster and mutated hull instead. It's a bit more expensive, but helps a lot.
That's debatable. I thought about the Mutated Hull, but I realised that being the only Tank in the army list, it'll draw fire from every single heavy weapon the enemy can bring to bear on turn 1. The chances of it surviving are slim to nil, Mutated Hull or no. The Dirge Caster was a last minute thing - I simply had 15 points left over, and that's where they went. I'm okay with dropping it, but I don't think Mutated Hull would be much of an upgrade.
 
#4 ·
Sorry if I didn't drop by earlier, didn't see the thread ^_^

I find that last unit of CSM very odd, they are obviously a mobile firebase & retenue for Blie, but get close enough to rapid fire, you'll be in charge range of your opponent, you might consider an aspiring champion.

the lieutenant with the Kai gun sounds like a good Idea, but he seems to have 2 diferent roles.

A fun thing to do it a DP with the Aether Lance and Kai gun, he can shoot both weapons in I (monstrous creature status?) then charge in.

Do you really need S 10 on the champions? 9 doesn't the job, against virutally anything, so I would drop the Daemonic Strength.

No, no for the mutated hull, it nearly buys another rhino. Simply smokes does it for me.
 
#6 ·
It's a nice and very...You list and I think that there is only one thing that disturbs me about it. It's the bodyguards - 7 men NOT enhanced!?! I :eek: know you might think you do not have the points for it but You really must find them :mad: The Primogenitor demands it. Shame on you Caluin!
(The harsh language and all is only to make the point come through, not to insult you or in any way cause bad feelings, I know you to be a nice and polite exterminator of men and an ever helpfull strategist in the conquest of overthrowing the emperor and cast the galaxy in flames and all...)

Andusciassus
 
#8 ·
the Aether lance is a 1 handed weapon and the kai gun is 2 handed, a monstrous creaurre can have both, or any model for that matter, but only MCs and vehiculs can fire mutiple weapons.
True, but they are both daemon weapons and you can only have one daemon weapon in your army.
 
#9 ·
Okay, so it sounds like people don't like the fifth group of CSM. The reason they're there is because I had extra points, and really didn't know how to spend them. So I figured I would get a small retinue with a Rhino for Fabius. I also liked it because it brought a little bit of Fearlessness to the units, which can't take the MoCU. It's like a little bit of insurance. I'm not impartial to dropping them one bit - I might in fact replace them with a Dread. It'll kill the fluff a little bit, but if Fabius can bring a Rhino, why can't he bring a Dread instead?

Only thing I don't like about that is I have a 114 point model on one end of the field doing practically nothing. Maybe I can use him as a counter attack model if my Havocs get threatened.

Wolf_Pack said:
the lieutenant with the Kai gun sounds like a good Idea, but he seems to have 2 diferent roles.
The power weapon is just in case he gets into CC somehow. Hopefully he won't, but I like the little bit of extra insurance. His primary role is shooty, and to look pretty while doing it.

Wolf_Pack said:
Do you really need S 10 on the champions? 9 doesn't the job, against virutally anything, so I would drop the Daemonic Strength.
Strength 10 because I play at a shop with a number of Chaos and Necron players. The Strength 10 allows me to always instakill a Daemon Prince or non-Destroyer Necron Lord, instead of having to worry about needing the charge with Furious Charge. Besides, Strength is cheap for Champs.

Okay, so if I drop the fifth unit, I can take this in it's place -

Dread
Plasma Cannon; Heavy Flamer; Smoke Launchers, Daemonic Possession; Mutated Hull; Coruscating Warp Flame

That leaves me nine points to play with. Or should I try building a Predator?
 
#10 ·
I don't think that a single armour will make it throught 2 turns, he'll have to spend a few turn in hiding before it's safe to show is nose.

What about a small unit of raptors? it would give the Lieutenant a retenue, and give you a solid unit to snap those devastator squads in first, second turn worst case.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Wolf_Pack said:
What about a small unit of raptors? it would give the Lieutenant a retenue, and give you a solid unit to snap those devastator squads in first, second turn worst case.
How could I pass up Raptors? Silly me. Fits in well with the fluff, too.

So, by taking off two havocs from each squad (Leaving two groups of six), I can buy me a six man group of Raptors, one of which is AC with Melta Bombs and Pair of L. Claws, two plasma pistols and a flamer, Furious Charge, MoCU, and Infiltration. I prefer my raptors in squads of eight if they're going to be CC geared, but since they're primarily surgical strikes, I think I can live with only six.

I think I like that. No armor whatsoever... just infantry.

How do guys think the list will fare against certain type of armies? Against MEQs and Necrons, I think it'll rock. The monolith might be a bear, but that's practically always the case.

Mainly, I fear it'll crash and burn when put up against a dedicated CC army, like Orks or Tyranids. Especially fearful of Genestealer lists.... not so much of TMC lists.
 
#12 ·
you can't fear orks, thanks to the enhanced warriors, your Initiative is 5, an roks with the power of the Waaagh! get a 4, and 6 for the Nob, but he is always kitted with a power klaw.

Just wait for them in a piece of terrain, Initiative 10 beats 6 anyday ^_^, just shoot them up mean while.
That is why you might want a unit with 2 flamers and a power weapon & Daemonic strength, nothing better than a flamer for bug extermination ^_^
 
#13 ·
Chaos Leiutenant -125 points
Mark of Chaos Undivided
Kai Gun
Power Weapon
Daemonic Flight
Infiltration
Night Vision
Move Through Cover
I'm not sure you have the right to give a Mark of Chaos and more than one veteran skills to you character. Or is it only appliable to your CSM Units ?
 
#15 ·
Why don't you give your havocs squad autocannon instead of missile launcher. Statiscaly, Autocannon with tank hunter vet skill has more chance to destroy a landraider than missile lauchers.
 
#16 ·
MindRaked said:
Why don't you give your havocs squad autocannon instead of missile launcher. Statiscaly, Autocannon with tank hunter vet skill has more chance to destroy a landraider than missile lauchers.
But has 0% chance of killing a Monolith, where the missile launchers atleast can glance it. Also, the autocannons fare badly when put up against MEQs.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Okay, posting the updated list. I've spent a few days working on it, and think I came to a good place in it. Changes are highlited in bold. See the first post in the thread for the newest list.

So, the plan is to infiltrate everything but Fabius. He's expendable. The Lord deploys near the Raptors, but not with the unit. Together they form a headhunting unit to take out high toughness units, or score some kills on mean nasty units (Like Death Company, Terminators, Command Squads, the like). I don't like the low number of Raptors, but there's not many options for increasing it. I can take units from either the CSM or the Havocs, neither I'm keen on.

If I plan on facing extra Hordy armies (like 'Nids), the Missile Launchers can be swapped for Autocannons. This may be unneccesary with the copius amounts of Flamers.

The CSMs always strike before their loyalist and traitor counterparts, which is a very handy thing. I thought about adding Furious Charge so I could strike at the same time as Genestealers, but the chances me getting the charge on them is slim to nil anyways, and hopefully I can thin them down before engaging in CC.

The Champs will always strike at Strength 10, good for bashing in rogue Princes and ensuring wounds on Dreads, Wraithlords, TMCs, the like.

I thought about adding Plasma pistols instead of the Flamers - anyone had luck using them in normal CSM units?
 
#22 ·
Chaos Leiutenant -116 points
Mark of Chaos Undivided
Kai Gun
Power Weapon
Daemonic Flight
Infiltration
Frag Grenades
Changes - removed the extra Vet skills, added Frags.
I think you'd want him to have an invulnerable save, if he stays in the open, he might take some shots, or in combat some power fists attacks.

Chaos Space Marines - Four groups, each 233 points, total 932.
Ten {10} Chaos Space Marines
Enhanced Warriors {10}
Infiltrators {10}
Frag Grenades {10}
Bolt Pistol + CCW {7}
Flamer {2}
Upgrade to Aspiring Champion {1}
Bolt Pistol {1}
Power Fist {1}
Daemonic Strength {1}
Changes - Melta guns removed for flamers. All four groups exactly alike now, no more Meltas in army. Super craptastic fifth "retinue" group removed.
Watch^out with all those flamers, you might end up not using them,a s a smart oppenent will remove the front models, and possilby deny a charge. maybe 2 plasmaguns or pistols on 1 of them?

Raptors - 216 points {12% of army}
Six {6} Chaos Space Marine Raptors
Mark of Chaos Undivided {6}
Bolt Pistol and CCW {3}
Plasma Gun {3}
Changes - New unit added to list.
I would advise against plasma guns, can't get the first turn charge and shoot. Pistols would do better. Infiltrating for 1 point ?
 
#23 ·
Wolf_Pack said:
I think you'd want him to have an invulnerable save, if he stays in the open, he might take some shots, or in combat some power fists attacks.
Not enough Daemonic Gift points to fit in the Invulnerable save. I figure he'll be hanging out close enough to the groups in the beginning to prevent being shot, and then when the units charge, they'll be busy to really bother the Leiut. Even if he does die, it's not that big of a deal. The troops are what's important.


Wolf_Pack said:
Watch^out with all those flamers, you might end up not using them,a s a smart oppenent will remove the front models, and possilby deny a charge. maybe 2 plasmaguns or pistols on 1 of them?
That's a good point. Plasmaguns would be poor, so I'm left with Plasma Pistols or Melta Guns. Either are good for me, but I think I might go with the Plasma Pistols in two groups. I've always wondered how those might work out.

Wolf_Pack said:
I would advise against plasma guns, can't get the first turn charge and shoot. Pistols would do better. Infiltrating for 1 point ?
The Raptors aren't meant for Close Combat. I have enough troop choices for that. The Raptors are a headhunting unit, designed to hurt an expensive command squad or MC badly with eight Plasma gun shots. But you have a serious point with the Infiltration - for some strange reason, it snuck itself right out of there, along with the points for it.

So, I've edited the recent list. Now I'm left with 16 points. Crud.
 
#25 ·
Last time I'm bumping this, I swear. But I think I found a breakthrough. The list is in the first post - I figure I'll just edit that instead of posting it over and over again.

The big change is the dropping of Raptors in favor of Oblits. They just seemed to bug me, being the small, specialized group that they were. I figure the Oblits will complement perfectly, no matter what army this list faces. They can form either an impromptu retinue for Fabius, or can Deep Strike when needed. Genius!

I have a game scheduled this week, so I'll have a battle report up sometime next weekend. We'll see how well it does.
 
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