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[1500] Emperor's Children (close combat)

724 views 10 replies 4 participants last post by  Rabbit 
#1 · (Edited)
This build is designed to go against the following armies: Genestealer build (Tyranid), Godzilla (Tyranid Monstrous Creature Army), Necrons, and Space Marines (w/ 6x land speeders).

My points may be a little off, because I no longer have my codex. My dog recently decided to shred it to pieces and then mark it as his territory- eh.


H.Q.- Lord: 168
MoS
Daemonic Stature
Daemonic Strength
Daemonic Resilience
Daemonic Flight
Daemonic Aura
Combat Drugs
2x C.C. Weapons
Frag Grenades


TROOPS: Concerning aspiring champions- I’ve decided in favor of a power fist over a power weapon & daemonic strength to help against Godzilla.

6x Noise Marine Squad #1: 153
*5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol, frag grenades
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Noise Marine Squad #2: 153
*5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol, frag grenades
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Noise Marine Squad #3: 147
*5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Daemonette Horde #1: 90

6x Daemonette Horde #2: 90


FAST ATTACK:

6x Noise Marine Bike Squad #1: 261
*5x Bikers- MoS, sonic blaster.
*1x A.C. Biker- MoS, power fist, sonic blaster

6x Noise Marine Bike Squad #2: 261
*5x Bikers- MoS, sonic blaster.
*1x A.C. Biker- MoS, power fist, sonic blaster


HEAVY:

5x Noise Havoc Squad: 175
*4x MoS, missile launchers
*1x MoS, bolter, c.c. weapon

TOTAL POINTS: 1496
 
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#2 ·
I dont play Slaanesh, and never have played against them, but if I were you I would make a shooty army, I doubt you will be able to go blow for blow with a 'Stealer in CC. They are nasty devils, and much cheaper than any of your models. Even with warp scream your still going to be striking last against those stealers, and by then half of your squad will probably be whiped out.

-Centum
 
#3 · (Edited)
Centum said:
I dont play Slaanesh, and never have played against them, but if I were you I would make a shooty army, I doubt you will be able to go blow for blow with a 'Stealer in CC. They are nasty devils, and much cheaper than any of your models. Even with warp scream your still going to be striking last against those stealers, and by then half of your squad will probably be whiped out.

-Centum
I've been playing Slaanesh for a while now and always made shooty builds. This is my attempt to make a c.c. oriented army. A c.c. Slaanesh build is more 'point friendly,' as the shooty version is rather expensive for what you get. But you're right about genes, and I have the same concerns.
 
#4 ·
boydgarrett said:
My points may be a little off, because I no longer have my codex. My dog recently decided to shred it to pieces and then mark it as his territory- eh.
Okay, I'll try to double check your points costs for you.
boydgarrett said:
H.Q.- Lord: 166
Close. 168 on the points. Seems fine, though I'm not a fan of Statured Lords. I would prefer normal sized and a Darkblade, but to each his own. For a Statured Lord, he works well.
boydgarrett said:
TROOPS: Concerning aspiring champions- I’ve decided in favor of a power fist over a power weapon & daemonic strength to help against Godzilla.
You could always do both - I've been toying with the idea of having both weapons on a Champion lately, just to keep the options open. Haven't run any live exercises with them yet, but I think the results are going to be nice. Many players take Daemonic Strength with the Powerfist anyways, so swapping that for a Powerweapon is only five more points. Not exactly breaking the bank.
boydgarrett said:
6x Noise Marine Squad #1, #2: 152
Very close - the two groups that have Frags are actually 153 points. I realize you didn't want to buy frags for the Champion, but you don't have a choice. Since the unit as a whole gets them, so much the Champion. Otherwise, nice, solid units.

boydgarrett said:
6x Noise Marine Bike Squad #1, #2: 262
Again, very close. 261, assuming the Champion also has a Sonic Blaster. Solid units.
boydgarrett said:
5x Noise Havoc Squad: 175
I worry about the size of this group - only one red shirt to eat a wound, means you'll be losing heavy weapons quicker than you like. Otherwise, I like the unit. You may consider swapping the Missile Launchers for Autocannons. They'll serve you better versus the Space Marine and Tyranid lists, although you lose a bit of versatility against the Necrons.

My big concern is the lack of models - it's one reason I dislike Slaaneshi troop units. Six is just too small of a unit for me. But there's not much to do about that, other than buy more units, or actually pay for the Champions (which isn't as a bad idea as you might think).

If it were me, I would drop one of the two biker units. Use the points to beef up the Havoc squad by two models, and either buy another Noise Marine unit, or another Havoc unit. Especially against the Tyranid lists, another squad of Havocs with Autocannons will be invaluable.
 
#5 ·
Caluin said:
Seems fine, though I'm not a fan of Statured Lords. I would prefer normal sized and a Darkblade, but to each his own. For a Statured Lord, he works well.
I really like the immediate threat of the statured lord w/ flight. He draws fire away from my troops and causes absolute havoc once he gets into c.c.. I would consider using a non-statured lord. What's your reason for the non-statured lord? Is it point cost? The ability to join another unit?

Caluin said:
You could always do both - I've been toying with the idea of having both weapons on a Champion lately, just to keep the options open. Haven't run any live exercises with them yet, but I think the results are going to be nice. Many players take Daemonic Strength with the Powerfist anyways, so swapping that for a Powerweapon is only five more points. Not exactly breaking the bank.
I'm very interested in seeing if double-stacking weapons on an A.C. pays for itself. Please keep us posted.

Caluin said:
I worry about the size of this group - only one red shirt to eat a wound, means you'll be losing heavy weapons quicker than you like. Otherwise, I like the unit.
Note taken: I'll be increasing the number of the havoc squad to 7.

Caluin said:
You may consider swapping the Missile Launchers for Autocannons. They'll serve you better versus the Space Marine and Tyranid lists, although you lose a bit of versatility against the Necrons.
If it were me, I would drop one of the two biker units. Use the points to beef up the Havoc squad by two models, and either buy another Noise Marine unit, or another Havoc unit. Especially against the Tyranid lists, another squad of Havocs with Autocannons will be invaluable.
At your advice, I'm thinking about adding another havoc squad and dropping a bike squad. With two havoc squads, I am debating whether to have one missile squad & one auto-cannon squad; or two auto-cannon squads. Hmm....
 
#6 · (Edited)
A couple of developments have occured in my neck of the woods. My army will no longer face a genestealer build, rather, that player has chosen a bug mix (Tyrant, Lictors, Genes, the likes). A new list of my opponents are as follows: Tyranids, Godzilla (Tyranid Monstrous Creature Army), Necrons, and Space Marines (w/ 6x land speeders).

I have already edited some of the suggestions made by Caluin.
Below are a couple of H.Q. configurations I am considering:

Option #1- This lord will presumeably join with a Noise marine squad
H.Q.- Lt: 120
MoS
Kai gun
Power Weapon
Daemonic Strength
Infiltrate

Option #2- This lord will presumeably join with the biker squad
H.Q.- Lt: 120
MoS
Bike
Darkblade
Melta gun


TROOPS:

6x Noise Marine Squad #1: 147
*5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Noise Marine Squad #2: 147
*5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Noise Marine Squad #3: 147
*5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Noise Havoc Squad #4: 147
*5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Daemonette Horde #1: 90

6x Daemonette Horde #2: 90


FAST ATTACK:

6x Noise Marine Bike Squad: 262
*5x Bikers- MoS, sonic blaster.
*1x A.C. Biker- MoS, power fist, sonic blaster


HEAVY: The last havoc squad was created to fill the roll of additional troop squads. I am wondering whether adding these two squads is better than increasing the number of models in my current troop squads- hmm...

6x Noise Havoc Squad #1: 194
*4x MoS, missile launchers
*2x MoS, bolter, c.c. weapon

6x Noise Havoc Squad #2: 147
*5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol


TOTAL POINTS: Pending
 
#7 · (Edited)
boydgarrett said:
Option #1- This lord will presumeably join with a Noise marine squad
135 points, actually. It would be 136, but you can't take the CCW (Two weapon limit). I'm not a big fan of sticking a Kai Gun onto a unit that plans on making it into Close Combat. He's a good Lord, but I don't think he'll do well in Close Combat. If you kept him out of Close Combat, he'd be great, if a bit vulnerable.

If you go this route, he's probably better off being a Lieut.

boydgarrett said:
Option #2- This lord will presumeably join with the biker squad
135 points as well. If you plan on hitting Close Combat, this is the way to go. Except no on the Powerfist - initiative 1 on an IC is a risky gamble, and likely to get him killed. Best to stick with a Powerweapon, or some sort of Daemon Weapon. Why the Plasma Gun? I'd stick a Melta Gun on him instead, so he can perform impromptu Tank Bashing if the need arises without inconveniencing the Biker Squad. You only have the one Havoc unit for MC/Tank Hunting, so having an extra gun can't hurt.

Everything else looks great. I think I'd still drop the Missile Launchers in favor of Autocannons, but I'm on an AC kick lately. I've recently come to realize their full potential, and I'll never go without them again.

EDIT - I meant to put in more.

boydgarrett said:
I really like the immediate threat of the statured lord w/ flight. He draws fire away from my troops and causes absolute havoc once he gets into c.c.. I would consider using a non-statured lord. What's your reason for the non-statured lord? Is it point cost? The ability to join another unit?
That's exactly why - I like my Lords to not have a huge "Lascannon Me" sign on their chest. Sneaky is my style.

boydgarrett said:
I'm very interested in seeing if double-stacking weapons on an A.C. pays for itself. Please keep us posted.
It may be a li'l while. I'm running into a severe lack of points in my current list, and really have only two options for freeing up points for the Powerweapons - either drop the Oblits, or drop Daemonic Mutation. Neither I'm keen on.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Caluin said:
I'm not a big fan of sticking a Kai Gun onto a unit that plans on making it into Close Combat. He's a good Lord, but I don't think he'll do well in Close Combat. If you kept him out of Close Combat, he'd be great, if a bit vulnerable.
If the H.Q. joins another squad, then he should have no problem staying alive. Also, he has good stats. What's the problem with his c.c.?

I'm getting a new codex some time in the next few days, until then please excuse my silly questions. Oh, I have one already: Can an H.Q. on a bike carry a two-handed c.c. weapon (darkblade in particular)?
 
#10 ·
boydgarrett said:
If the H.Q. joins another squad, then he should have no problem staying alive. Also, he has good stats. What's the problem with his c.c.?
The Kai Gun is a two handed weapon. Means he doesn't get the +1 attack bonus. Secondly, it's an expensive piece of ranged wargear that can't be used in Close Combat. If your Lord is mired in CC for two or more rounds, that's two or more rounds you can't use that great gun.

My point is if he's a shooty Lord, he should be stuck in a shooty squad.
boydgarrett said:
I'm getting a new codex some time in the next few days, until then please excuse my silly questions. Oh, I have one already: Can an H.Q. on a bike carry a two-handed c.c. weapon (darkblade in particular)?
DarkBlade is one handed.

Now, as for the question... well, that's iffy. By the letter of the rules, yes. By the spirit of the rules, no.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Final Draft:

H.Q.- Lt: 95
MoS
Kai gun
Infiltrate


TROOPS:

6x Noise Marine Squad #1: 157
*4x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, melta gun
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Noise Marine Squad #2: 157
*4x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, melta gun
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Noise Marine Squad #3: 157
*4x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, melta gun
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Noise Havoc Squad #4: 147
*5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol

6x Daemonette Horde #1: 90

6x Daemonette Horde #2: 90


FAST ATTACK:

6x Noise Marine Bike Squad: 262
*5x Bikers- MoS, sonic blaster.
*1x A.C. Biker- MoS, power fist, sonic blaster


HEAVY: The second havoc squad will function as an additional troop squad.

6x Noise Havoc Squad #1: 194
*4x MoS, missile launchers
*2x MoS, bolter, c.c. weapon

6x Noise Havoc Squad #2: 147
*5x Marines- MoS, infiltrate, c.c. weapon, bolt pistol
*1x A.C.- MoS, infiltrate, power fist, bolt pistol


TOTAL POINTS: 1498
 
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