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DH Allies - IG or WH?

1K views 27 replies 9 participants last post by  number6 
#1 ·
I have searched for this topic and have come up wanting. So if this is a duplicate please provide links to where I can get some ideas?

I have about 2000 points of IG and DH models. I have played IG with DH allies in the past. Basicaly an IG command squad with heavy support squads and two units of troops with lascannons. I field as many GKs as possible. This works out to be about 50% IG and 50% DH with around 15 heavy weapons and three units of GKs. This has worked a bit but since everyone is a footslogger my army seriously lacks mobility.

I've been looking at the WH codex for a while and was wondering if anyone has had experience playing either DH + WH or WH + DH. Would they offer me the mobility I require? Do they make a good combo? What units do you suggest?

I really love the idea of women in power armor....

Oh yeah, I also hate tanks (except the Necron Monolith) so don't even mention them please.
 
#2 ·
I think the problem with WH's, is that they don't give you the long range fire-support that IG do. Yes they give you some tougher troops up front, but GK already have that.

The only thing that I think is good to take with from a WH army in a Grey Knight one, is Seraphim:w00t: . These lovely ladies can give you mobility, and a can kill lots of different types of targets. Exorcists are another thing, but you can't take them in a GK army, and you don't want tanks.:(
 
#3 ·
Plus, the SoB are very ecomonic, they are quite cheap for what they can get. A Good SoB squad in a Rhino will cost around 210 pts.

You can do a 3 way army.

Using the SoB as the parent army, due to thier Economical value, induct some guard, I sujest Armored Fist squads as they can be very useful, and mobile. then get a squad of GKTs of teleporting PAGKs, this can give you a very fast army, but it should ionly be attempted at 1500+pts (prefeably higher than 1500, but it can work.)

If this doesn't fit you let me know and well work it out.

Mike
 
#4 ·
Don't like tanks? And you play Imperial Guard? I'm intrigued.

You really MUST get a unit of Seraphim. In my opinion, this is the best assault squad in the game. Fast! Very fast. Equip 'em with 2 hand flamers and a veteran superior with a plasma pistol and power weapon and watch them mow down troops.

If you don't consider Rhinos tanks, Sisters of Battle are great and relatively cheap.

Consider a unit of Celstians mounted in an Immolator, which is essentally a wickedly-armed Rhino, no matter what you put on it. (Don't take a Dominon squad; the Fast Attack slot is better used by Seraphim.)
 
#5 ·
So your saying you'd rather have 2 flamer templates over 6? one of which is a TL Heavy Flamer? Add in Divine Guidance and WAMMO, they could have lost a squad!

But I'm finding that Seraphim just aren't very deadly in general, yes thier shooting is acurate, but short ranged, the VSS is the only model who is truely effective at CC, course, I like my Dominion idea :D

Mike
 
#6 · (Edited)
MiketehFox said:
So your saying you'd rather have 2 flamer templates over 6? one of which is a TL Heavy Flamer? Add in Divine Guidance and WAMMO, they could have lost a squad!

But I'm finding that Seraphim just aren't very deadly in general, yes thier shooting is acurate, but short ranged, the VSS is the only model who is truely effective at CC, course, I like my Dominion idea :D
Maybe it's just the way I play. But I find that a small squad -- even only 6 strong, which is pretty cheap -- can get in the enemy's face faster than any any transport can get them there. And once there, not only do they shoot up everything -- all is twin-linked -- but the assault that immediately follows is brutal. Each regular Seraphim model gets 3 attacks while the vet with that power weapon gets 4. That's a lot of punishment, and I haven't seen it fail me too often. But if it does, you hit and run and repeat the procedure. Two shoot/assaults from my Seraphim have never failed to obliterate anything I put them against.

Once, on a foolish lark, I even took them up against my friend's Ork Warboss, Nob retinue, and a Killa Kan. I was outnumbered, outmuscled, and certainly was up against at least twice the points value. But because I could hop the Seraphim through cover, they never got a shot off against me, and when I first came in, there was nothing left except the Warboss and Kan. (I invoked the power where their initiative goes up by 2, to ensure that I attacked in CC before those Orks! All told, I inflicted 12 wounds in that shoot/assault.) I lost three Seraphim, but they jumped away at the end of the assault back into cover, then came back next round and that was the end of the Warboss and Kan.

I think Seraphim really are that much more useful than Dominions. ;)
 
#7 ·
Let me clarify: I do not play IG, I play DH and needed some long-range firepower. The only real effective way to do this was to make an IG force (for the command support squads) and ally DH. But, I don't care for IG because they have no armor and a BS of 3. I also hate the idea of painting 50+ models of IG. But they do provide heavy weapons for my DH force.

I was thinking SoB could give me a middle-road option and having armor-clad women to paint seemed fun. But from what you are telling me and what I've read on the forum about them (I do not own the codex) they won't provide everything that I need.

I like the idea of Seraphim as this will help with some of my mobility problems. But it still seems as if I would require IG to provide heavy support. I love the idea of bringing 14+ heavy weapons onto the field in addition to my GKs so I guess I'm stuck painting IG after all. I wish inducted IG could include a command squad so I could just bring along the heavy weapons without the need for the 2 troop choices. Then I could effectively mix all three into a single force.

BTW, the reason I hate tanks is they always get shot out from under me on the first turn so I've never seen them worth their points (unless it's the Necron Monolith).

Thanks for the info guys.
 
#8 ·
Since you are eschewing tanks, it seems likely you're not using your heavy support slots much. Is there any reason you can't/don't want to fill those heavy supports with GK Dreadnoughts kitted out with the twin-linked lascannon/missile launcher combo? In larger games, and for only 435 points (if you also get extra armor), you could have three of them!
 
#9 · (Edited)
MiketehFox said:
Plus, the SoB are very ecomonic, they are quite cheap for what they can get. A Good SoB squad in a Rhino will cost around 210 pts.

You can do a 3 way army.

Using the SoB as the parent army, due to thier Economical value, induct some guard, I sujest Armored Fist squads as they can be very useful, and mobile. then get a squad of GKTs of teleporting PAGKs, this can give you a very fast army, but it should ionly be attempted at 1500+pts (prefeably higher than 1500, but it can work.)

If this doesn't fit you let me know and well work it out.

Mike
Hmm, no. You can only use allies from one list at a time. Though that might change when Xeno Hunters come out, I believe we'll be able to combine all 3 army lists of the Inquisition, but don't quote me on it.

As far as WH allies, Seraphim are fantastic. They might not have long range weapons, but they're fast, which I find even more valuable. They are great tank busters, plus they grant you the always wonderful Faith points. Personally, the only time I would ever take IG in a DH force is when I wanted a Leman Russ or some Rough Riders. But even Rough Riders aren't that helpful in a GK heavy army considering GK's are already beasts in CC. A Leman Russ on the other hand is amazing, especially with the ability to take Improved Comms. Improved Comms = Safer DS'ing GK goodness.

I can understand your dismay for tanks, but think about it this way. If your opponent spends a turn concentrating on them, that leaves the rest of your force able to surge forward. Which in a essence is worth it's points. And if nothing else, there's always Dreadnoughts which can lay down heavy fire from afar with Lascannons and Missile Launchers.

p.s. - Don't forget GK Dreads have a little ability called the Shrouding.
 
#10 ·
As far as tanks go, I either think you play with a lot, or none. A lone (or two) Dread will gather all the enemy AT fire, which means dead Dreads fast (DDF). If you have Landraider or a Leman Russ to absorb (hopfully) some AT fire for a few rounds, then your Dreads, Rhino's and Chimeras have a great chance of lasting.
 
#11 ·
No, you can't use IG as allies, but you can 'induct' them into an WH or DH force, while still being able to get some DH/WH units.

on Page 21 it says that if your allieing GK DH to WH/SM/IG, you can't inlcude Inducted IG or SM in the DH army, you can still Induct IG/SM to the WH as the DHs are the alliues while the Parent list is the WH.

Maybe I should clarify, as somebody won't understand....(it always happens not offening anyone)

Parent List CAN induct IG/SM while sttill including allies. But the Allies CAN'T induct IG/SM

So, you can do:

Parent List: WH with Inducted IG
Allies: DH No iducted units.

Let me know if anything confuses you.

Mike
 
#12 ·
The problem with taking inducted IG is (at least with the DH codex) you cannot take an IG command and support squads. The support squads are your heavy weapon squads. Without them I'm stuck with normal infantry squads and only a few heavy weapons.

I didn't think of the shrouding for heavy support dreadnoughts! Shooting at 48" makes it near impossible for enemies to fire back and seems like a very valid option. It's nowhere near the 14+ heavy weapons my IG can pack but it's a start.

With the cost benefits of Seraphim and SoB while retaining their 3+ saves may give me the mobility I require while relying on a few dreadnoughts for long range firepower. Damn, now I have to go buy the WH codex!

Thanks everyone for the assistance. Long live LO!!
 
#14 ·
LordCreampuff said:
I didn't think of the shrouding for heavy support dreadnoughts! Shooting at 48" makes it near impossible for enemies to fire back and seems like a very valid option.
I didn't think that GK Dread could us the Shrouding special rule?!
 
#15 ·
I think I remember reading that it still protects the dreadnought as there if a Grey Knight encased inside it and the dreadnought armor is blessed. This was either in the rules or the FAQ I believe. So when Ioregnak mentioned it it rang a bell. But I don't remember where I read it.
 
#16 · (Edited)
LordCreampuff said:
I think I remember reading that it still protects the dreadnought as there if a Grey Knight encased inside it and the dreadnought armor is blessed. This was either in the rules or the FAQ I believe. So when Ioregnak mentioned it it rang a bell. But I don't remember where I read it.
I checked the 'Dex and on page 20, it lists the squads that can be called "Grey Knights" as for purposes of special rules etc, and Dreads were not part of it, so I'm afraid that we can't "Shroud" our Dreads.:cry:
 
#17 ·
I had never really thought about Dreadnoughts being subject to Grey Knight special rules before I posted that. Afterwards, I checked the Codex and they indeed weren't listed. But the online FAQ at the GW site states to treat a Dreadnought as thought it at 10 Leadership for the purpose of the Aegis special rule. So that made me curious enough to call GW yesterday, and they said that Dreadnoughts are subject since they are essentially still Grey Knights....albeit older and more heavily armoured.
 
#22 ·
Ioregnak said:
...the online FAQ at the GW site states to treat a Dreadnought as thought it at 10 Leadership for the purpose of the Aegis special rule.
The reason that the Dread has to have an official Ld score is because if you give it the Blessed upgrade it gains the Aegis (Dh codex, page 19). That's the only Grey Knight special rule it can take advantage of, and is useful against Bolts of Change, Tyranid Warp Blasts, and IG Machine Curses.
 
#24 ·
I'm intrigued by the Dreads w/shrouding.Is this really the case?

LordCreamy,The Sisters have no tankbusting or long range firepower that your IST can't already get unless you take them as the parent list and take Exorcists.The Seraphim are wicked fast,but you can only have one unit.If you like the models,cool.

Your big concern is changing to a parent GK list w/lots of long range firepower,right?If the Dreads can shroud,sounds like the best option is to take 3 w/the TLLC and ML.If not,look into inducting the Last Chancers and some Sentinels w/LC.Way less models to paint,but you are still stuck w/BS3 on the Sentinels.
 
#25 ·
Ikeaboy said:
I'm intrigued by the Dreads w/shrouding.Is this really the case?

LordCreamy,The Sisters have no tankbusting or long range firepower that your IST can't already get unless you take them as the parent list and take Exorcists.The Seraphim are wicked fast,but you can only have one unit.If you like the models,cool.

Your big concern is changing to a parent GK list w/lots of long range firepower,right?If the Dreads can shroud,sounds like the best option is to take 3 w/the TLLC and ML.If not,look into inducting the Last Chancers and some Sentinels w/LC.Way less models to paint,but you are still stuck w/BS3 on the Sentinels.
Sorry, no shrouding on GK Dreadnoughts. Ever.

If speed/anti-tank is a problem, you can still use Seraphim for the job. Just kit 'em out with inferno pistols instead of flamers and/or give the whole squad melta-bombs. A bit pricier, but they'll pop armor right quick. (Seraphim already come with krak grenades, so most tanks can be taken out by them. Remember that all the Seraphim in your squad have those handy grenades.)

Course, for that particular task, it may be better to take a Dominion squad in an Immolator with twin-linked multi-meltas. (This unit will probably be somewhat more expensive than Seraphim, too, but not egregiously so.)

Or you could keep your Seraphim assault squad and take a Celestian squad with multi-meltas, melta guns, and a multi-melta Immolator.

I agree that inducting Guard can be good for the DH, but only if it becomes part of your overall strategy for your army. Just inducting guard so you can get heavy weapons seems suboptimal to me. Especially if you're not going to take a Leman Russ. I say spend the equivalent amount of points on GK dreadnoughts with lascannons and missiles. They can move and fire their heavy weapons, they're better armored than Guard troops (duh), and they're more likely to hit their targets than guard troops with heavy weapons (BS of 4 instead of 3, and the lascannons are twin-linked).
 
#26 ·
in the oficial 4th ed update v4.0.1 it says that the dreadnought is subject to the ageis special rule, so if it is subject to one speial rule then by inference it is subject to all of them.
 
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