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Gaming pet hates

2K views 37 replies 20 participants last post by  Demonica 
#1 ·
Oki'm in the mood for a nit of a rant so i've started this thread one of my pet hates is gamers who immediatly say an army is broken if they cannot immediatly see a way to beat it i'll give an example. Last year i was chatting to a friend of mine about chaos, now he plays sister of battle (or rather would play sisters of battle if he could be bothered to find and paint up the minitures he owns) an was rather annoyed (and i mean annoyed) about the close combat potential of Khorne or all the extra bonuses i could give my daemon prince. I'd better mention now that i was discussing creating this army and the strop he got into had to be seen to be believed (its lucky we're good friends).

Thinking about this got me wondering what are other gamers pet hates, what about rules lawering, bad in itself, but being rules lawered by someone with only a partial painted army ( i have nothing against unpainted armies i am a slow painter myself the one thing i hate is a rules lawer)
 
#5 ·
Hmmm seems like someone has found a subject he likes to rant on may I humbly remind him of some words a wise man once said

GamesmasterZ said:
Why do you people always do this? WHY!?

Next time you feel like ranting about...ANYTHING.

Don't.

I am pretty mellow when it comes to gaming, its for fun so its good to know who your opponent is, I play against my brothers mainly. One of them loves to play to win, I don't mean that he gets annoyed if he loses but he sees the game as a WAR game (and it is) so he is in it to win, thats fine because then I can take the same attidute we both pick an army to annalihate the enemy (Some would call these armies cheese but anyway) and its great fun taking chunks out of each others army.

As for my other brother he prefers campaigns and narratives to go with the battle which is also great then you can take themed armies and see what happens.


Probably my biggest pet hate is cheating when making an army list. In my mind there is no such thing as Cheese as long as it is legal, but if it goes over the points or you start choosing things you aren't allowed that winds me up a bit. (unless it has been agreed before hand of course). I guess its because otherwise it just becomes an excercise in dice rolling.
 
#6 ·
Berny Mac said:
Probably my biggest pet hate is cheating when making an army list. In my mind there is no such thing as Cheese as long as it is legal, but if it goes over the points or you start choosing things you aren't allowed that winds me up a bit. (unless it has been agreed before hand of course). I guess its because otherwise it just becomes an excercise in dice rolling.
Agree wit ya 100%. I play Skaven, and nobody has ever accused my army of being cheesy, but I am sick to death of hearing about how broken Skaven is. Heck, I've played against a supposedly "cheesy" Skaven army ... and lost! Big deal! I had fun, he had fun, we all had fun. Done and done. Now I can work to figure out how to beat him.

Stop whining about cheese and change your tactics.
 
#7 ·
People like gamesmasterz another one of my pet hates you didn't have to read this thread if you don't like it that ain't my problem, so why don't you just go away and find something else to bleat about.
 
#8 ·
I think this is a bit ironic for gamemasterz

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53892


Anywho, onto topic. The thing that peeves me the most about wargaming is the scrap who will write or bring different armies or list that are tailored to beat my army once he finds out what I'm playing.

ie, He'll normally have missile launchers, lascannons and meltaguns in abbundance in a marine army, but as soon as he hears I'm playing my Dark Eldar, suddenly, the heaviest weapon he's got is autocannons, and he's got a lot of them.
Or if I decide to bring my Guard/Tau on a Saturday, he'll suddenly have two jump pack squads led by chaplains and very little in the way of heavy armored vehicles.

I don't mind tailored lists, but tailoring on the spot once you know what you're going against is just unsportsmanlike in my opinion.
 
#10 ·
MobiusPrime said:
Anywho, onto topic. The thing that peeves me the most about wargaming is the scrap who will write or bring different armies or list that are tailored to beat my army once he finds out what I'm playing.

ie, He'll normally have missile launchers, lascannons and meltaguns in abbundance in a marine army, but as soon as he hears I'm playing my Dark Eldar, suddenly, the heaviest weapon he's got is autocannons, and he's got a lot of them.
Or if I decide to bring my Guard/Tau on a Saturday, he'll suddenly have two jump pack squads led by chaplains and very little in the way of heavy armored vehicles.

I don't mind tailored lists, but tailoring on the spot once you know what you're going against is just unsportsmanlike in my opinion.

Tailoring armies is a bit dodgy. But if he always plays space marines can't you tailor your army?

General tailoring knowing your playing guard and so picking certain troop choices is fair enough it gets nearer to cheating if he knows what your exact army will be and then picks his armylist.
 
#11 ·
GamesmasterZ said:
Why do you people always do this? WHY!?

Next time you feel like ranting about...ANYTHING.

Don't.
I am Hoping that Grandmaster Z is trying to be ironic by Ranting against Ranting in a thread about ranting, otherwise it is quite sad.
 
#12 ·
Berny Mac said:
Tailoring armies is a bit dodgy. But if he always plays space marines can't you tailor your army?

General tailoring knowing your playing guard and so picking certain troop choices is fair enough it gets nearer to cheating if he knows what your exact army will be and then picks his armylist.
Hey There. Im not a 40k player (havent been for 3 years). My input on the space marine thing is that if the other guy has a guard army and you know he has a guard army. its safe to say that your 2 squads of jump pack, combat friendly death bringers will most likely dice up half of his army. I do not like tailored lists period! I stick with my one list for awhile... I mean that way I can work around my disadvantages and learn how to use your current army against everyone instead of making a tailored list all the time to give you tactial advantage... seems cheesy and unfun to me ...thats my 2 cents
 
#13 ·
My problem is that when I started playing my brothers had been collecting for about 10 years and had built up a huge collection, so if we played a game say space marines vs eldar we would both tailor our armies vs a particular opposition. Hence in my experience tailoring wasn't a problem because my opposition could tailor his force as much as I could tailor mine.

I can see that if one person only has a small collection tailoring would be an issue. But then saying that if I played any of my friends who didn't have as large a collection they could use any proxies or my models that they wanted so again tailoring wasn't a problem.

Incidently playing against an opponent who is geared to destroying your army with an army that is geared to destroying theirs is very fun and results in uber carnage.

Another way of playing is for person to make both army lists then roll a dice at the start of the game to see who gets which army.
 
#14 ·
LOL! Pretty ironic, too, given his comments about ranting. . .
 
#15 ·
I have a pet hate against people who say stuff like

Why do you people always do this? WHY!?

Next time you feel like ranting about...ANYTHING.

Don't.
 
#16 ·
Berny Mac said:
My problem is that when I started playing my brothers had been collecting for about 10 years and had built up a huge collection, so if we played a game say space marines vs eldar we would both tailor our armies vs a particular opposition. Hence in my experience tailoring wasn't a problem because my opposition could tailor his force as much as I could tailor mine.

I can see that if one person only has a small collection tailoring would be an issue. But then saying that if I played any of my friends who didn't have as large a collection they could use any proxies or my models that they wanted so again tailoring wasn't a problem.

Incidently playing against an opponent who is geared to destroying your army with an army that is geared to destroying theirs is very fun and results in uber carnage.

Another way of playing is for person to make both army lists then roll a dice at the start of the game to see who gets which army.
I don't mind tailoring, and even see it sometimes as a good challenge to test my abilities.

But when the general population of players of a club bring a standard list week after week, and are blind on what opponent they are going to face, and then they get set up with someone who looks at their army and plays the strengths and weaknesses, that frustrates me.

We have a new kid who's coming on Wednesdays for Warhammer. He plays dwarves, and we were discussing some tactics and the differences between FB and 40K.
I mentioned about how I play Wood Elves and Tomb Kings, and he immediately said 'I'll have to remember to give my warmachines flaming runes when I play you'.
This is an example of kitting that I don't appreciate.

(He also uses the Anvil of Doom special character, which is another pet peeve of mine, as I see special characters as crutches for victory and in FB, tend to outrageously unbalance the game, unless the other player is including a special character as well.)
 
#17 ·
Back on topic (no gamemaster, he's heard enough, and why bother)

Yeah, I can understand the tailoring thing. At our club, we generally do minor tailoring prior to the game, but in general, we don't try and build something to literally pick apart our enemies. While an extra heavy bolter may find it's way into my SM opponents list, I have no problem with that as long every ML and LC isn't switched. There's also the people that play the same list time and time again.

And I certainly have tailored a mean list (as I don't believe in cheese, but do believe that some lists are less enjoyable for me or others to play) to knock someone down a step. Last month, had a game in a tournie where the mission totally screwd my list, and because the game didn't allow special rules (found out the day off) my alaitoc got crushed. Fine and dandy, but then to watch the victory dance and listen to the snide "heh, guess you'd call that a victory for me". He asked me for a rematch, so I played my other list. Starcannon death-turn 5 had killed every single model and taken all corners, and he had only inflicted 5 wounds (killing my avatar and wounding a WL). 2500pts to 80, after which I asked if he'd like to play another game, and call it even from the two before.

I also tend to have problems with people that get upset about rules lawyering. I don't insist that they play by the rules, but I will certainly point out what the rules say, and ask that in future games they play by that. And if we agree that a piece of terrain blocks all LOS (including corners) then guess how I'm going to play? And if you say that you can shoot me through that corner, then I will remind you what we agreed upon, but will not insist.

And as to the unpainted, I must admit, my army is in this state. I have painted several squads in the past year, but it's been a slow go. Not a lot of time, and progress is being made. But I tend to have a problem with those that continue to build thier army, and have yet to actually paint ANY of it. After 4 months, you should at least have one single model painted.
 
#18 ·
MobiusPrime said:
I don't mind tailoring, and even see it sometimes as a good challenge to test my abilities.

But when the general population of players of a club bring a standard list week after week, and are blind on what opponent they are going to face, and then they get set up with someone who looks at their army and plays the strengths and weaknesses, that frustrates me.

We have a new kid who's coming on Wednesdays for Warhammer. He plays dwarves, and we were discussing some tactics and the differences between FB and 40K.
I mentioned about how I play Wood Elves and Tomb Kings, and he immediately said 'I'll have to remember to give my warmachines flaming runes when I play you'.
This is an example of kitting that I don't appreciate.

(He also uses the Anvil of Doom special character, which is another pet peeve of mine, as I see special characters as crutches for victory and in FB, tend to outrageously unbalance the game, unless the other player is including a special character as well.)
So wait you play people who litterally see your army (models and everything) and then choose their army? That is very unsporting of them.
On the other hand knowing you are playing against Woodelves/Tomb kings and taking flaming runes, thats just common sense. BUT you should always respect the conventions of the gaming group, if the norm is to pick one army and use that then the polite thing is to stick to that custom.

Psecial characters are dodgy, in the older editions special characters weren't that powerful because you could normally create your own more powerful character but in the newer editions they should really be reserved for specific scenarios.

Personally I think GW should bring out a specific Army Book of special characters plus famous battles they fought in, that would make the whole sytem fairer.
 
#19 · (Edited)
About tailoring, you should always bring your army list with you BEFORE you even get to the game - let alone after you have seen your opponant. Its fine to think, oh that Tomb King guy wants a game tommorow, lets put flaming runes on my cannons. Thats called choosing the right units for the job. But what is NOT fine is seeing your opponants army list and then getting your pencil out and writing up an army tailored to win. If you do that, half the game is already over.
Of course, if your opponant uses the same list every time then you can tailor to beat him in advance. But really thats your opponants fault for being so stubborn. Plus, one day he could take you by suprise and bring a new list.

In short: Make army lists in advance, no problems with Tailoring.


My 'pet peave' is powergamers who insist on using max wizards, max war machines and as many handguns as they can afford. Those games are really not fun, more of a 'yay lets get shot for 6 turns and do nothing'. No tactical thinking, no manouvering, no intense combats. Its almost as bad as 40k (hehe).

Oh, and those bloody goblins when they win (you never hear the end of it!).

Edit: More..

Playing on someones kitchen table with little or no terrain REALLY sucks 100% of the fun from any game. I mean come on, if your going to host some games you can at least buy a grass green sheet and make a few simple forests and hills!

Unpainted models... Sure, I have no problem if the unit is only 2 weeks old but after that START painting them at least. Two out of Three my regular opponants armies are almost fully unpainted.

'Represented models' ... just, no. MAYBE I will allow it once so my opponant can test a unit, but only if the models he uses are good representations. To be honest, he shouldent need to test them anyway. Just read the army book and decide. But 'that guy' who uses a 30 strong unit of metal great swords just to 'test' them when he obviously has no intention of buying some in the future gets me angry.
 
#20 ·
Spike_alike said:
About tailoring, you should always bring your army list with you BEFORE you even get to the game - let alone after you have seen your opponant. Its fine to think, oh that Tomb King guy wants a game tommorow, lets put flaming runes on my cannons. Thats called choosing the right units for the job. But what is NOT fine is seeing your opponants army list and then getting your pencil out and writing up an army tailored to win. If you do that, half the game is already over.
Of course, if your opponant uses the same list every time then you can tailor to beat him in advance. But really thats your opponants fault for being so stubborn. Plus, one day he could take you by suprise and bring a new list.

In short: Make army lists in advance, no problems with Tailoring.


My 'pet peave' is powergamers who insist on using max wizards, max war machines and as many handguns as they can afford. Those games are really not fun, more of a 'yay lets get shot for 6 turns and do nothing'. No tactical thinking, no manouvering, no intense combats. Its almost as bad as 40k (hehe).

Oh, and those bloody goblins when they win (you never hear the end of it!).

Edit: More..

Playing on someones kitchen table with little or no terrain REALLY sucks 100% of the fun from any game. I mean come on, if your going to host some games you can at least buy a grass green sheet and make a few simple forests and hills!

Unpainted models... Sure, I have no problem if the unit is only 2 weeks old but after that START painting them at least. Two out of Three my regular opponants armies are almost fully unpainted.

'Represented models' ... just, no. MAYBE I will allow it once so my opponant can test a unit, but only if the models he uses are good representations. To be honest, he shouldent need to test them anyway. Just read the army book and decide. But 'that guy' who uses a 30 strong unit of metal great swords just to 'test' them when he obviously has no intention of buying some in the future gets me angry.
I agree 100% here. You spent all your time and money buying and painting models, and some guy wants to proxy a land raider with a 75 cent toy jeep. Now I can undterstand this maybe for a short time if the person is actively saving up for said land raider, but if they've been playing with this for 8 months, and have bought other things, including starting a new army then I think it's a bit ridiculous. Personally i won't play with an army that hasn't at least been base coated, period. I don't care if I just bought it yesterday. Irritating when they leave their WHFB chaos guys unpainted so they can easily switch back and forth between gods. "you're playing ______? these guys are tzeentch, etc etc." I play chaos also. I have 2 entirely different armies. One painted undivided and one painted Khorne. of course maybe that's just me on that one. hehe.
 
#21 · (Edited)
bigmed said:
I agree 100% here. You spent all your time and money buying and painting models, and some guy wants to proxy a land raider with a 75 cent toy jeep. Now I can undterstand this maybe for a short time if the person is actively saving up for said land raider, but if they've been playing with this for 8 months, and have bought other things, including starting a new army then I think it's a bit ridiculous. Personally i won't play with an army that hasn't at least been base coated, period. I don't care if I just bought it yesterday. Irritating when they leave their WHFB chaos guys unpainted so they can easily switch back and forth between gods. "you're playing ______? these guys are tzeentch, etc etc." I play chaos also. I have 2 entirely different armies. One painted undivided and one painted Khorne. of course maybe that's just me on that one. hehe.
LOL you guys wouldn't play against my gaming group I fear (well prehaps against some of them).

Don't get me wrong painting and modeling are huge aspects of the game and I have nothing but the utmost respect for anyone who is decent at at it but.....well this is kind of shameful but the common view held by most of the people I play against is time spent painting is time that could have been spent playing.

As for proxies I am perfectly fine with anyone using any proxies they want the reason being
a) I actually have access to a huge collection so it wouldn't be fair if I could use what ever I wanted and my opponent had to reley on a smaller collection
b) G.W stuff is quite expensive using proxies is the best way of saving money.

I think this issue actually effects my atitude on cheesyness, if I play against someone they can take what ever troops they want whether they have the models or not, and I will do the same, everyone is in the same boat so there is no such thing as a cheesy army. But if you play just with painted models then I can see how certain gamers can exploit this lack of choice.

As for your point about chaos guys the cheekiest thing to do is to paint an army of just preheresy traitor legion, voila you now have both a loyalist and Chaos army.
 
#22 ·
Ahh, proxies, I was wondering when that would creep up...

One thing to keep in mind is WYSIWYG is not a game rule, and in fact, it used to be written into the rules to use coins or paper clips or anything else to represent the models so you could play a game.

That said, it most certainly is more enjoyable for me to play against someone using representative models, but I have 0 problem with someone who I know doesn't have the funds. Most kids I know generally can't afford $40 for a plastic tank, and another $40 for the painting gear to finish it. Last month I played in a store tournie where I quite literally played against an army man army (representing IG). While I found it a bit difficult for the fact that he was young and didn't have all the rules down, nor was there any way for me to tell what was what, we both had a good go of it, and he has since gotten a single small squad of citadel figs.

And the whole list thing again, while it may seem more fair, most of the lists that I see written ahead of time tend to be a bit more powerheavy than the ones made then and there. It seems that they've had more time to think how they really want to use the units, and how the army will fit together, vs a spur choice of troops. But I certainly agree that some people will/do take advantage and tailor a specific counter army. I have yet to lose to one, so I personally have no problem there, but I realise that it can be frustrating.

The prepared list is useful in a great many ways but in our area you find many people with varying sized armies, and limited time. While I can field over 23,000pts of space marine or eldar, my time constraints only allow for 1,000-2000pt games usually. This, and the fact that our store combined with everyones times, and how social it tends to be at our store, only allows for a single game, maybe two if they're lopsided in 4 hours.

As to some of the new people that show up and try this(tailoring list), I usually unload my 15,000 pts of eldar on another table and smile. write a list or use one I have, and deploy out of my huge selection. Yeah they know I'm eldar, but how many of the 120+ guardians are hitting the table, how many of my 3 falcons, 3 wraithlords, 10 wraith guard, or 30 warp spiders.

And at least at the store I regularly play at, we have an unusually great group that all like the game. We have rules lawyers (me), kids, parents, newbies, powergamers, mindless prats, and the rest of the gammet but we all get along well. Further, when we get new people to the store, and they are poor gamers (attittude is everything), we make sure that if they pick on the young inexperienced players, we check their rules, and will try and get them a game against a vet just to knock 'em down a notch. Mind you, we always welcome new people, and new players are great because you get new armies (oddly enough, we only have 3 marines in over 20 armies, gotta love that), new play styles, and great new people that share your hobby interests.



Oh, just thought of another pet peeve...
"I forgot to move that unit", "too bad, you've shot", "well, I fleet of foot'ed that unit to save the double movement phase" "still counts as shooting" "fine..."
People that are inflexable with such things tend to find me bringing the full wrath of the rules on their heads. I have no problem with them shooting the tops of my models heads, but I should be able to return fire. Played a few of these players (and since I am the rules lawyer of our group, it makes it all the worse) and find that they just don't enjoy the game unless they win by decimating the other player. I have no problem using the rules, nor allowing players to use the rules they are familiar with, but when they leave their codex at home, no army list, and pull special rules from their skull, plus try and bend the rules in only their favor, I have no problem whipping out the bgb and listing off infractions.

Anyways, happy days gents, and heres to hoping you're all getting a great game in today.
 
#23 ·
Yeah it gets quite annoying when people aren't sporting in not allowing people to charge/move/shoot if they forget. but then it depends on the game, normally we agree what kind of game we are playing before hand, a muck around where anything gos or a strict competitive by the book kind of game, saves on arguments.
 
#24 · (Edited)
in answer to tarzan at the beginning of this thread i did say that i hater rules lawers, BUT if people are making up special rules after forgetting their codex then i do agree that they need to be set straight in order for fair play. the kind of rules lawyering i hate is when people are enforcing the rules so much that the game is no longer fun. bending the rules is sometimes a good idea and is sometime essential to ensure a good narative based game however people who are constantly saying "you can't do that it's not in the rules" spoil the game for me. I do however agree that strict rules are needed but only when appropriate ie tornaments etc.
 
#25 ·
Yep it definitly depends on the context, another common rules bending is force organisation, normally If we want a quick game we just grap as many figures as we can and play, forget points values, but if we are using points values then I expect my opponent to stick to them.
 
#26 ·
tarzen said:
Ahh, proxies, I was wondering when that would creep up...

One thing to keep in mind is WYSIWYG is not a game rule, and in fact, it used to be written into the rules to use coins or paper clips or anything else to represent the models so you could play a game.

That said, it most certainly is more enjoyable for me to play against someone using representative models, but I have 0 problem with someone who I know doesn't have the funds. Most kids I know generally can't afford $40 for a plastic tank, and another $40 for the painting gear to finish it. Last month I played in a store tournie where I quite literally played against an army man army (representing IG). While I found it a bit difficult for the fact that he was young and didn't have all the rules down, nor was there any way for me to tell what was what, we both had a good go of it, and he has since gotten a single small squad of citadel figs.

And the whole list thing again, while it may seem more fair, most of the lists that I see written ahead of time tend to be a bit more powerheavy than the ones made then and there. It seems that they've had more time to think how they really want to use the units, and how the army will fit together, vs a spur choice of troops. But I certainly agree that some people will/do take advantage and tailor a specific counter army. I have yet to lose to one, so I personally have no problem there, but I realise that it can be frustrating.

The prepared list is useful in a great many ways but in our area you find many people with varying sized armies, and limited time. While I can field over 23,000pts of space marine or eldar, my time constraints only allow for 1,000-2000pt games usually. This, and the fact that our store combined with everyones times, and how social it tends to be at our store, only allows for a single game, maybe two if they're lopsided in 4 hours.

As to some of the new people that show up and try this(tailoring list), I usually unload my 15,000 pts of eldar on another table and smile. write a list or use one I have, and deploy out of my huge selection. Yeah they know I'm eldar, but how many of the 120+ guardians are hitting the table, how many of my 3 falcons, 3 wraithlords, 10 wraith guard, or 30 warp spiders.

And at least at the store I regularly play at, we have an unusually great group that all like the game. We have rules lawyers (me), kids, parents, newbies, powergamers, mindless prats, and the rest of the gammet but we all get along well. Further, when we get new people to the store, and they are poor gamers (attittude is everything), we make sure that if they pick on the young inexperienced players, we check their rules, and will try and get them a game against a vet just to knock 'em down a notch. Mind you, we always welcome new people, and new players are great because you get new armies (oddly enough, we only have 3 marines in over 20 armies, gotta love that), new play styles, and great new people that share your hobby interests.



Oh, just thought of another pet peeve...
"I forgot to move that unit", "too bad, you've shot", "well, I fleet of foot'ed that unit to save the double movement phase" "still counts as shooting" "fine..."
People that are inflexable with such things tend to find me bringing the full wrath of the rules on their heads. I have no problem with them shooting the tops of my models heads, but I should be able to return fire. Played a few of these players (and since I am the rules lawyer of our group, it makes it all the worse) and find that they just don't enjoy the game unless they win by decimating the other player. I have no problem using the rules, nor allowing players to use the rules they are familiar with, but when they leave their codex at home, no army list, and pull special rules from their skull, plus try and bend the rules in only their favor, I have no problem whipping out the bgb and listing off infractions.

Anyways, happy days gents, and heres to hoping you're all getting a great game in today.

I totally agree with you! My friend is sooooooooooooooo stingy, he never let's in 1/2 a centimetre off in. Another "pet peeve" is people who have no imagination or creativity whatsoever, they only play co's an army has a certain aspect, persay, Railguns. The first thing they do when they get a new Wrahmmer Codex/ Army Book is flip to the stats and magic items.
 
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