Librarium Online Forums banner

1.500 SM list for Spanish Nationals Please help !

913 views 13 replies 7 participants last post by  Brother Luctus 
#1 · (Edited)
Im attending Spanish Nationals next May and Im trying to get my list finished and polited :p
First of all, im an old WH40K player that came to SM in a diferent order than the traditional "first army" , actually its my 5th army I collect, I started Eldars, then orcs :p , nids, weak old taus and finally ended starting SM.

The list pretend to be a shooting list, not very balanced in the isue of troops vs Heavy suport and elites...

Here it goes:
(sorry my english btw )

Mayor adventages: honor your equipment and not despair (the 1 that let u use devastators in elite and the 1 that let u have a 7th turn)
Mayor disaventage:hope for the glory (or however its called :p u know .. no dreadnought, no termys no assault marines no items... nothin i really need :p )

HQ1
-->1 Bibliothecary + Bolter pistol + Fury of the ancients ........... 104
HQ2
-->1 Bibliothecary + Bolter pistol + Fury of the ancients ........... 104

Troop1
--> 5 marines + laser canon .................................................. 90
Troop2
--> 5 marines + laser canon .................................................. 90

Elite1
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Misile launchers + Tank hunter trait ....... 150
Elite2
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Misile launchers + Tank hunter trait ....... 150

Fast attack1
--> 2 land speeder tornado + 2 assault canon + 1 reflector ..... 161
Fast attack2
--> 2 land speeder tornado+ 2 assault canon ......................... 160
Fast attack3
--> 1 land speeder tornado + 1 assault canon........................... 80

Heavy Support1
--> Predator Annihilator + Laser canons + reflector ................ 146
Heavy Support2
--> Predator Annihilator + Laser canons ................................. 145
Heavy Support3
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Heavy bolter.......................................... 120


oki let me splain a little my way of playing.. as you can see im totally weak vs hth, if something manage to get near me it will prolly eat the unit that get caught, I get ride of this problem shooting hard on aproaching foes and also deploying my units in a way that I can create a void arround the assaulted unit so after it the melee dont get the chance to reengange another unit.

Movility to face the assult problem have proved to me to be a good solution, also in a tournament of the scale of a national organicers normally get out of scenarios and the Battleground is pourly settled few to no place to hide while aproaching to assault distance.

This army deploy a firepower of 10 Laser cannons, 6 Missile launchers, 8 Heavy bolters, 5 Assault Cannons, 16 Bolters and the yewel of the crwn... the 2 bibliothecary using the evilnnes incarnate psichic power :p Fury of the ancients ! (ftw!)

After long playtesting "Fury of the ancients" power have proved itself a Battle winner battle winner, I dont use Jetpacks on the bibliothecarys cause I need them to be shoting the power from the very first turn of the battle, when units are more crowed... u get more chance to hit some of them and a hight chance to get running away unit that fail leadership roll hit the border line of the playing ground and get desintegrated :p
2 of this nasty guys shoting get ride of an increible number of units in the battle and u have to see them killing those "godlike" demomns with siren ...
Very uselfull vs almost any army

Devastator with missile launcher and tank hunter trait are great VS anything in the game, note that the normal bolters will be able as well to down 10 armor vehicles on 5-6 dice rolls.
The fact that im going with 3 devastators squats adn 2 predator leave me lower the number of Heavy weapon in the units instead of adding more marines to make them survive.

Land speeders tornado is in my opinion the most craking unit SM have atm, units of 2 "sploit" the not giving points unless u kill them all, and they still can control objetives, overpowered if u ask me.
I use a unit of only 1 cause I had to get point for the 2nd bibliothecary and he turned into my "SUICIDE" land speeder, I many times risk a deep deploy in the back of a tank in the first turns, and it usually worth the points risked, can totally decide the battle from the beguining if deployed in a good place spoiting corners
the theory of land speeders is to move them jsut the inch enought so u can see the target unit arround the corner but not too much so other units cant shot it.
Forest and range 3 terrains are speeders best friends.

Predators are there to get others vehicles and also of course to atract firepower from single marines, predators are good, enoght said :p

The devastator squat with Heavy bolters is the only1 I plan to deploy within a range of less than 100 cm from enemy.

I will try to stay long range with the most of my army keeping my units between 120 and 91 cm, deploy all large of my deploying area to minimize the effect to deep strikers and move away from them creating void areas.

I ask you guys, I pray you to test this army in your local gaming places and correct it if posible , i got still 2 months to improve it or totally change it :p

Edit1. deleted single weapon and upgrades points.
 
See less See more
#5 ·
Drop the vehicles and the second librarien. Add plasma guns to your tactical squads. Go with more devastators.

Enough devastators CAN win a tournament. Consider infltrate however, as this will allow you to set them up in cover for a cover save as well as last so they get LOS to the things that need to be killed right away.

What is a reflector? There is nothing called that in the english codex. Also, speeders can not take upgrades from the armory.

Drop never dispair. The fact that it gioves the bonus to your oponent as well should tell you its not worth it. If anything it will just give an assualt based army one more turn to get its slow moving units to you.
 
#6 ·
Go in my user profile, and read my journal, specifically the entry with the infiltrating dev list.

I can't stress how deadly it is. I plan on bringing it to a GW tournament, as I have won games with an insane ammount of victory points. (Litreally won with only 10 dead bolter mariens as casualties)

I have learned so much from it that I might write an infiltrator tactica.

BTW it has zero for assault, and the HQ doesn't even have a chainsword, but I've only lost about a squad or two at most from assault (but the attackers died the next turn).

Devastators with missile lannchers and infiltrate would help you immensely. You can infiltrate so that only half of your opponent's army can see you (which means you can blow up that half while he has to move toward you, and by then you will have moved into a new firing position. Tank hunters is good because it makes missile launchers into lascannons, except that you save 12 pts each. If you have 8 of them, that's about 96 points saved with MLs and tank hunters rather than using Lascannons.

For your list, I would suggest some plasma cannons, as they can deal with those tough 2+ save units that Missile launchers don't do much against (I literally shot about 30 krak missiles at 2 obliterators and didn't do anything. But that wasn't with my dev list and I lost 2 of my 4 plasma cannons on the first turn to overheat).

Cheers, show how great honour your wargear is!

BTW there's a thread about how to easily buy missile launchers from GW somewhere around here...
 
#7 ·
New list V 1.2

OK after some more playtesting and listening a lot of advices in diferent boards I´ve included some more Marines, diching some vehicles and that 2nd HQ......

The list stands something like that:

Mayor adventages: honor your equipment and not despair (the 1 that let u use devastators in elite and the 1 that let u have a 7th turn)
Mayor disaventage:hope for the glory (or however its called :p u know .. no dreadnought, no termys no assault marines no items... nothin i really need :p )

HQ1
-->1 Bibliothecary 115 Bolterpistol Fury of the ancients Auspex.............. 125

Troop1
--> 5 marines + laser canon + Plasma Rifle ....................................... 100
Troop2
--> 5 marines + laser canon + Plasma Rifle ....................................... 100


Elite1
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Misile launchers + Tank hunter trait ............ ....... 150
Elite2
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Misile launchers + Tank hunter trait .................... 150
Elite3
--> 5 Devastator+ 3 Misile launchers + Tank hunter trait ..................... 150

Fast attack1
--> 2 land speeder tornado + 2 assault canon ................................. 160
Fast attack2
--> 1 land speeder tornado + 1 assault canon ..................................... 80
Fast attack3
--> 1 land speeder tornado + 1 assault canon ..................................... 80

Heavy Support1
--> Predator Annihilator + Laser canons+ reflector+ reinforced armor 5... 151
Heavy Support2
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Missile Launchers ............................................. 135
Heavy Support3
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Heavy bolter .................................................... 120

This gives me a total count of 41 models with a firepower of:

6 Laser Canons, 12 Missile launchers, 7 heavy bolters, 4 Assault Cannons, 17 Bolters, 2 Plasma Rifle and 1 Fury of the ancients.

Thats agains the old :10 Laser cannons, 6 Missile launchers, 8 Heavy bolters, 5 Assault Cannons, 16 Bolters and 2 bibliothecary using Fury of the ancients.

I lose 4 Laser Cannons, get 6 more Missile launchers, lose 1 Assault Canon, lose 1 Heavy Bolter, win 1 bolter and 2 Plasma Rifle and lose 1 shot of fury of the ancients.

Overal I get now 15 Strength 9 heavy weapon agains tank, 1 less than before Ill be stronger vs Eldars, a little weaker vs godzilanids.

I get 2 less vehicles that make 225 points less to be harmed in a excaled deploimnet omega mission with makes my army a little bit better.

I get as well better chances the first turns to fire more as having less vehicles makes you lose less shots from stunned or terroriced results in armor penetrating table.

On the other hand I know for sure vehicles last longer in Battlefields than simply marines squads due to their hight armor.

Muy tactic of deployment in the very very edge of the 2 corners of my deployment line with have to be sharped as I get more models now in the table.

2 Things I havent changed:

-- Im not gonna drop never dispair adventage as Chaosbrynn suggested me, Its true that my oponent will have also an extra turn to assault me, complete objetives or even outshoot me but I must take the risk, Im attending the tournament with a new army not finished painted and Im not using a lot of Troops options, so Im heading just to get the Best general award or to finish as close as I can , so I will take the risk keeping in mind as well that there will be low low low scenography for my oponent to hide and assault me.

-- Im not going to use the Infiltrators variant that ezekiel1990 suggest me for the same reason , 200 tables in the tournament will me desert tables with few obtacles in them making Infiltration a lot more innefective. ( but I will use it for myu local shop games for sure Ezekiel , i loved the concept)


Fell free to criticise this now please. How do you see it?
 
#8 ·
Drop the last pred. Vehicles DO NOT last longer then marine squads on the field. With only one vehicle, you can kiss it goodbye first turn.

You should really be totting some plasma cannons. Otherwise some Deepstriker lists, most notably Drop Pod lists, will mess you up bad. 2 in 2 different squads deployed within range of each other but on oposite sides of the table. This will make podding in very dangerous for your oponent.

Id go with at least one infiltrating squad of missile launchers. There WILL be at least 1 area terrain on the table and being able to place some missile launchers in it AFTER your oponent deploys will prove invaluable.

If you want to place well in this tourny, then taking a traight that offers your oponent a bonuus as well is not a good idea. The things that are dangerous to you are the slow moving heavy close combat things. These things could REALLY use an extra turn to deal with you. Perfect example is a Nightbringer. Normally he would only have 1 or 2 turns to dice through your marines. With your traight you give him a 50/50 chance at an extra turn to mince more of your marines. Your seriously putting yourself at a disadvantage here by taking this traight. If you want to finish as best you can, drop this traight! There are many others that would do you far better.
 
#9 ·
Lets see.... I was playing a little bit with an old statics program from my days in the Uni :p
And decided to give a go to those nice ideas.....

Adventages: honor your equip
disadventages: die alone

HQ1
-->1 Bibliothecary 100 Bolterpistol Fury of the ancients 5 marines scort, Plasma Cannon, Plasma rifle, Infiltrators............................ 227

The idea here is been able to Infiltrate the Librarian in the very end area of their deployment lines to take adventage of the psichic power and get 1 of those devastating lines of 5 units :), I will mostly separate them and use the plasma guys to kill any +2 save unit arround there.
If this unit Atracts the assault unnits of my enemy I WIN cause they will not be able to trip to the edge of their area and then all way foward mine :p
Cool plan eh? :p

Troop1
--> 5 marines + laser canon + Plasma Rifle ....................................... 100
Troop2
--> 5 marines + laser canon + Plasma Rifle ....................................... 100
Troop3
--> 5 marines + laser canon + Plasma Rifle ....................................... 100

They are good , they are classic and kill vehicles easily, also the plasma rifle is a warnning agains anything aproaching to my nose

Elite1
--> 6 Devastator + 3 Plasma Cannons + Infiltrators .................... 168

This will infiltrate forward and try get as well termies or any super thought unit there, but If my oponent army deepstrikes I will keep this arround the center of the BF to attempt stop the raining units.

Elite2
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Misile launchers + Tank hunter trait .................... 150

Fast attack1
--> 1 land speeder tornado + 1 assault canon ..................................... 80
Fast attack2
--> 1 land speeder tornado + 1 assault canon ..................................... 80
Fast attack3
--> 1 land speeder tornado + 1 assault canon ..................................... 80

Heavy Support1
--> Predator Annihilator + Laser canons+ reflector+ ........................... 151
Heavy Support2
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Missile Launchers ............................................. 135
Heavy Support3
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Heavy bolter .................................................... 135

Why I keept the predator ?? :p well .... because I like it ! I bought the sides of sister of battle inmolator and the tank just look sooo nice :p gotta use it , sowwwy.
(ill try get it near a part of scenography so only a little portion of my enemy army can see it , and far away enought so no1 can fire him :p) ( and bring me elvis back)

oki , this army deploy 7 Laser Cannon, 9 missile launchers, 4 plasma cannons, 3 assault cannons, 3 heavy bolters, 4 plasma rifle, and 17 bolters and 46 figures on table.

And I will get killed (if all my army had the chance to fire vs uncovered normal marines)
22.45 marines killed each turn

Its improving no? :)
 
#10 ·
I would try to find a way to make all the dev squads have 4 weapons each, and make the heavy bolters into missile launchers.

On a side note, what's a reflector? I know you are from spain and english probably isn't your first language, but could you describe what it does so I will know what the english version is?

Oh, and it's definetly improving.
 
#11 ·
Chaosbrynn said:
If you want to place well in this tourny, then taking a traight that offers your oponent a bonuus as well is not a good idea. The things that are dangerous to you are the slow moving heavy close combat things. These things could REALLY use an extra turn to deal with you. Perfect example is a Nightbringer. Normally he would only have 1 or 2 turns to dice through your marines. With your traight you give him a 50/50 chance at an extra turn to mince more of your marines. Your seriously putting yourself at a disadvantage here by taking this traight. If you want to finish as best you can, drop this traight! There are many others that would do you far better.

I've played probably 15 games with the Never Despair trait and I've only actually ever rolled for it and got it maybe four times. Out of those four times, I straight lost once (it was a last ditch effor at that point), turned two should've been losses into two draws, and one draw into a win.

I've never had an opponent actually remember to use the trait against me in a game I was winning.

I personally have a hard enough time at the end of a two or three hour game remembering I even have the damn trait- and it's my list!

Sure, in a tournament, which is what Sandokan is talking about here you're going to have the hardest of the hardcore playing against you and chances are they won't forget, but under the pressure of the tourney, and after having played for a couple hours, those folks might even forget- and that's when Never Despair can be brutal. Folks are so used to playing six turns, they do stuff in that last turn they wouldn't normally do if they had a turn or two left. If that's when you bust out your Never Despair roll, a lot can change. And if you don't get the roll, they probably won't push you on it anyways.

It could really bite you in the ass, but I rarely have an opponent that either 1) remembers I have the trait and 2) knows that he can use it to force another turn.

Just something to think about. Your mileage may vary.
 
#13 ·
Sandokan said:
HQ1
-->1 Bibliothecary 100 Bolterpistol Fury of the ancients 5 marines scort, Plasma Cannon, Plasma rifle, Infiltrators............................ 227

The idea here is been able to Infiltrate the Librarian in the very end area of their deployment lines to take adventage of the psichic power and get 1 of those devastating lines of 5 units :), I will mostly separate them and use the plasma guys to kill any +2 save unit arround there.
If this unit Atracts the assault unnits of my enemy I WIN cause they will not be able to trip to the edge of their area and then all way foward mine :p
Cool plan eh? :p
Good squad. Though I would change the plasma gun to a plasma cannon. You would be suprised how far some dedicated assualt unts can make it in a turn or 2.

Sandokan said:
Troop1
--> 5 marines + laser canon + Plasma Rifle ....................................... 100
Troop2
--> 5 marines + laser canon + Plasma Rifle ....................................... 100
Troop3
--> 5 marines + laser canon + Plasma Rifle ....................................... 100

They are good , they are classic and kill vehicles easily, also the plasma rifle is a warnning agains anything aproaching to my nose
Perfectly fine.

Sandokan said:
Elite1
--> 6 Devastator + 3 Plasma Cannons + Infiltrators .................... 168

This will infiltrate forward and try get as well termies or any super thought unit there, but If my oponent army deepstrikes I will keep this arround the center of the BF to attempt stop the raining units.

Elite2
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Misile launchers + Tank hunter trait .................... 150
I would drop the tank huhnters. It isnt necessary with the lascannons in your tactical squads. Also, your list will become exponetiatlly more powerful if we fill in those dev squads. 8 men, 4 heavy weapons.

Sandokan said:
Fast attack1
--> 1 land speeder tornado + 1 assault canon ..................................... 80
Fast attack2
--> 1 land speeder tornado + 1 assault canon ..................................... 80
Fast attack3
--> 1 land speeder tornado + 1 assault canon ..................................... 80
Perfect.


Sandokan said:
Heavy Support1
--> Predator Annihilator + Laser canons+ reflector+ ........................... 151
Drop this, its completely out of place in this list. Basically free points for your oponent. These points would be FAR better spent filling in your devastator squads.

Sandokan said:
Heavy Support2
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Missile Launchers ............................................. 135
Heavy Support3
--> 5 Devastator + 3 Heavy bolter .................................................... 135
These are fine, but again, more marines and more heavy weapons.

It is definately comming along. A note on tactics. Your downfall will be seperating your infiltrators too far from the rest of your firebase. Remember, just because a squad can infiltrate, doesnt meen it needs to be as close to the enemy as possible. In fact, when in filtrating heavy weapons, all you need do is infiltrate to the weapons maximum range.

Currently you have 2 infiltrating squads. Depending on the size of the field your playing on, how far you infiltrate them will vary. Remember, the most important thing is that the rest of your army should be able to cover your infiltrators. Should they end up in close combat, you want to be able to annihilate the assaulters as soon as your infiltrators fall back or are destroyed.

List is comming along well. Should do well in a tourny.
 
#14 ·
Sandokan said:
HQ1
-->1 Bibliothecary 100 Bolterpistol Fury of the ancients 5 marines scort, Plasma Cannon, Plasma rifle, Infiltrators............................ 227
Hey, Good to see your army is coming together! :yes:
Just one suggestion... it's your choose, but i would suggest 2 plasma cannons and an
apothecary to protect your squad from overheating weapons and enemy fire. You'll be
glad you picked the extra cannon and all the apothecary has to do is save 2 wounds and
it earns back it's points.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top