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librarian questions?

834 views 16 replies 10 participants last post by  zuriel 
#1 ·
i've got several questions about my librarian. do note that i have a lot of spare points to spend in my army, so his points cost doesn't really matter that much.

first off, i am having trouble deciding which power to choose, either might of heroes or veil of time. mostly, i just want him to be good in the assualt but i can't decide which is better, up to 3 extra attacks, or rerolls on everything.

second, i am planning to give my librarian a familier. he is on a bike and i was wondering whether or not i could model the familier on the bike. i know it says he should be seperate, but it would be a huge inconvenaince and would look really stupid if his familer was on a seperate base. i just want to know if you think people will allow me to model him on the bike in friendly games.

Third, i was having trouble trying to figure out how to equip him. is an invul save really needed? becuase i was thinking of giving him a combat shield, but i'm not sure if its really worth the points.
also, would mastercrafting his force weapon be a good idea. lastly i was thinking of giving him a 2+ save to increase his survivabilit, but i'm not sure if its nessesary.
 
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#2 ·
alexpape7 said:
i've got several questions about my librarian. do note that i have a lot of spare points to spend in my army, so his points cost doesn't really matter that much.

first off, i am having trouble deciding which power to choose, either might of heroes or veil of time. mostly, i just want him to be good in the assualt but i can't decide which is better, up to 3 extra attacks, or rerolls on everything.
If you just want him to kick ass in close combat, I'd just go with MoH, although if you end up not giving him an invulnerable save or artificer armor or something to increase his survivability, I'd think about VoT.

Are you thinking about a Codicier here or an Epistolary?

second, i am planning to give my librarian a familier. he is on a bike and i was wondering whether or not i could model the familier on the bike. i know it says he should be seperate, but it would be a huge inconvenaince and would look really stupid if his familer was on a seperate base. i just want to know if you think people will allow me to model him on the bike in friendly games.
I modeled my familiar coming off of my librarian's backpack. I point it out if folks ask what it is and haven't had a problem with it yet.

I hear ya on the "familiar on seperate base" thing. I guess if there was some way for them to get seperated it might make more sense, but after reviewing the rules I just said hell with it and modeled it on my librarian figure.

By the way, not only have I not have anyone complain about this, I even played in the GT with that model.

Third, i was having trouble trying to figure out how to equip him. is an invul save really needed? becuase i was thinking of giving him a combat shield, but i'm not sure if its really worth the points.
also, would mastercrafting his force weapon be a good idea. lastly i was thinking of giving him a 2+ save to increase his survivabilit, but i'm not sure if its nessesary.
As someone who picked Aspire to Glory, I suffer from invulnerable save envy.

I'll say this much on the subject, I won't be making any more uber priced HQ dudes without some kind of invulnerable save anymore. It just seems like after playing a few games, I'm really reluctant to get my HQs into the thick of it without some type of invulnerable save anymore.

In regard to mastercrafting, I wouldn't bother. It only allows you to re-roll one miss, right? Not all attacks? If that's the case, I don't think it's worth the points.

If you don't go with some kind of invulnerable save, then yeah, I'd for sure go with a 2+ artificer armor save.
 
#3 ·
the master crafting is basically another swings, as long as you dont have any way to re-roll your swings. if you do take Veil of Time, then certainly dont MC. I would definetley give your librarian some kind of invulnerable save before you up his save. I like the combat shield if you really want something budget, but librarians arent that good if you try to skimp points. you want a cheap HQ play a chappy.
 
#4 ·
first off, i am having trouble deciding which power to choose, either might of heroes or veil of time.
veil of time all the way. if points cost is not an issue. it allows you to reroll everything, so it is way better.

second, i am planning to give my librarian a familier. he is on a bike and i was wondering whether or not i could model the familier on the bike.
the Familiar should be on a separate base. it is a separate model after all. they are the same as inqisitorial familiars. They form a unit with the librarian and have the stats of an IG model. as such they "deserve" their own base. and I don't think it looks stupid. just get/scratchbuild/convert a cool looking model.

Third, i was having trouble trying to figure out how to equip him. is an invul save really needed?
depends what you want to do with him. I would say yes to the invulnerable save. you are going to go hunting for other characters (with the lovely forceweapon) so it is absolutely encessary to have an inv save for survivability. unless you are playing tau or eldar a lot - their characters don;t have too many powerweapons. Terminator honors are good too, to increase the number of base attacks.
 
#5 ·
second, i am planning to give my librarian a familier. he is on a bike and i was wondering whether or not i could model the familier on the bike.
I would use magnets. Model the famliar however you want him to attach to the bike, just make the connection with a magnet instead of glue, this should allow your model to look great and be functional. I think there is an article on this very web site about how to do that.

About rules-

Statically, if you want a powerful assault charactor, you should a chaplain:

Lib wargear: 2 wounds, termi honours, frags, pistol, bike, combat shield, MoH, familiar 172

Librarain with might of heros: 8 attacks on the charge, on average: you score 5.33 hits, and kill 2.667 MEQs(marines basically) on average. So rougly 3 dead per turn.


Lib wargear: 2 wounds, termi honours, frags, pistol, bike, combat shield, VoT, 177

Librarain with veil of time: 6 attacks on the charge, you score 5.34 hits, and kill a solid 4.

Chaplain: 2 wounds, termi honours, frags, pistol, bike, 132

6 attacks on the charge, 5.34 hits, 2.67 dead.

Consider that you have saved 40 points verses the might of heros libraraian, yet kill the same.

You also have a better invunerable save, however the chaplain strikes at one less initative, which normally wont be a problem.

However the bonus to the rest of the chaplains squad is indreadably good, and far outways 1+ initative.

Chaplain: 2 wounds, termi honours, frags, pistol, bike, lightening claws 162

Chaplain with lightening claws: 6 attacks on the charge, you score 5.34 hits, and kill a solid 4.

This chaplain saved 15 points over the other librarain, and is consistantly better in CC over more assault phases.

If you want CC power, use chaplains, they can kill just as much as a librarain, for less points, and add a bonus to the rest of the squad.
 
#6 ·
Forged makes some good points, but Librarians are extremely handy to have around if you play against opponents who use psyhic abililties.

The two games I won recently with my army were in large part due to the fact that my opponents Farseer and Rune Priest were largely ineffective while my librarian was on the table.

If you know you're going to not face psykers or field an assault type force- chaplains are your answer.

However, if you're not sure what you're going to run into, a librarian can be a pretty handy dude to have around.
 
#8 ·
Librarians are also far better Character Killers. That Force Weapon can be nasty, and the other psychic powers are just icing on the cake.
I have to disagree.

Plus 1 point of initative does not make a librarain very much better at killing charactors then a chaplain.

Furthermore, a powerfist is your best charactor killing weapon.

And since you cant combine any powers with a force sword, it makes your librarains average number of wounds far less then the chaplains.

Therefore the librarain is singifcantly more points, for only modest gains. However the hood is nice, however a farseer will win most dice roles, unless you select to use a 3 wound librarain.

If your looking for assault power charctors chaplains are simply the best bang for your buck.
 
#9 ·
I'm with Forged. Chaplains can dish out 6 attacks on the charge with rerolls and allows the whole squad he's with rerolls to hit. That alone is much better than anything a Librarian can do.

The force weapon is ok at best. Most ICs have high LDs anyways and forget about trying to kill 'Nids.

I'm all about things that are definate. A Chaplains 5 attacks are definate, psychic powers aren't. Rerolls for an entire squad is definate, a force weapon isn't.
 
#10 ·
my 2 cents is model something like a servo skull or something of the bike.

one thing that i rekon you can't go without is the VoT, causing wounds unsaved you get the force weapon chance of outright killing. now re-rolling those tests could really help with tough units. bit unsure about it though.

with the mastercrafting i'd take a plasma pistol and mastercraft it. but by that time it's kinda useless and better with a jump pack, the mcpp would be able to re-roll those 1's and allow an extra attack in cc. i'd rather that than mc the force weapon.

with all that talk on chaplains, why not get a librarian to augment his attack count to 6-9? that's fairly reliable and extremely nasty with the re-roll
 
#11 · (Edited)
o.k. i just realized that i have enough extra points left over(more than i originaly thought) to REALLY beef up my librarian. in fact, i could aford to give him both powers it turns out. i was wondering, would making such an ubber close combat librarian be a bit cheesey. i have two librarians in my army and i have enough points(about 80 extra points to spend (don't even think about suggesting a land speeder, i hate them!!! :( )) to beef them both up to a rediculous degree. would this be even more cheesey. i mean, i wouldn't really make him so buffed up if it wasn't for the fact that i have so many spare points to spend and have already included everything else that my army needs. it was either spending my points to beef up my librarian or getting a tech marine(which i had for a while, but realized was just a waste of points). anyway, it won't unbalance my list at all, i just don't want to do it if it is overly cheesey.
 
#12 ·
alexpape7 said:
o.k. i just realized that i have enough extra points left over(more than i originaly thought) to REALLY beef up my librarian. in fact, i could aford to give him both powers it turns out. i was wondering, would making such an ubber close combat librarian be a bit cheesey. i have two librarians in my army and i have enough points(about 80 extra points to spend (don't even think about suggesting a land speeder, i hate them!!! :( )) to beef them both up to a rediculous degree. would this be even more cheesey. i mean, i wouldn't really make him so buffed up if it wasn't for the fact that i have so many spare points to spend and have already included everything else that my army needs. it was either spending my points to beef up my librarian or getting a tech marine(which i had for a while, but realized was just a waste of points). anyway, it won't unbalance my list at all, i just don't want to do it if it is overly cheesey.
I think your either are confused with how your librarien works or are very new to the game. Ive never heard anyone call a librarien cheese regardless of how beefed up they are, so feel free to go all out(the one exception being dual FotD libs in a drop pod, that guy moaned for quite some time). Just know that chances are your spending points on a whole whack of things you really dont need. Its been mentioned by forged, but just so im sure your aware:

You can not activate 2 phsychic powers in one turn.
You can not activate a psychic power AND the force weapon in one turn.
No invulnerable save GETS YOU KILLED!

In any case, generally the most deadly librarien comes with a squad of his own. hopefully terminators, but not necessarilly. What IS necessary is a powerfist in the squad. The librarien takes MoH and uses it on the powerfisted character. They end up with 7 powerfist attacks on the charge. As forged mentioned, thats a WAY better chance to kill whatever it is your attacking then trying to get the librarien to do it on his own. Remember if you use a power the force weapon is just a fancy power weapon. Halo is a must!! Depending on his support he varies a little, others can give you advice on what to equip him with depending on what you send him out with (you arent sending him out by his lonesome right?)

Techmarines are fine as juiced sergeants. attach them to a squad and if your clever with where you place him in close combat, he survives pretty darn well.

anyways, cheers dude
 
#13 ·
hey i'm not new! but that aside, i usually don't go for expensive characters, but again, i have a but load of points to get rid of. thx for pointing out that i can only use one power per turn, totally missed that one. its just that i've never really used a psyker before. plus, i guess i was confused becuase i once read a GW article online where some guy was talking about how veil of time and might of heroes was such a good combo. anyway, don't worry, i'm not sending him out on his own, in fact, he is in a squad of bikers.
 
#15 ·
alexpape7 said:
...in fact, he is in a squad of bikers.
If you go this route then beware. If you turboboost you cannot use any of the 'shooting' psychic powers. This might not trouble you too much- but bear it in mind.

BTW I love Libbies. They are a nice rounded character that can be tuned to be either tactical or cc roles (or both). Yes Chaplains are cheaper we all know that, but what are chappies doing prior to getting into cc? Nothing. Not letting rip with Fury of the Ancients that's for sure, nor warding off incomoing psychic threats.

So bite the bullet and take a Libby. Cheap ain't always good.

Here's a bike-mounted Libby config:

Codicier (close combat)
Bike, Familiar, Artificer armour, Fury or Fear, Combat shield, Plasma pistol, Master-crafted Force weapon, Termi hons.

LIBBY TACTICA HERE [If anyone cries "pimping" I shall of course remove the link.]

good luck
Z
 
#16 ·
BTW I love Libbies. They are a nice rounded character that can be tuned to be either tactical or cc roles (or both). Yes Chaplains are cheaper we all know that, but what are chappies doing prior to getting into cc? Nothing. Not letting rip with Fury of the Ancients that's for sure, nor warding off incomoing psychic threats.
More likely, they will both be tubro boosting, thereafter, the chaplain will be in assault.



Codicier (close combat)
Bike, Familiar, Artificer armour, Fury or Fear, Combat shield, Plasma pistol, Master-crafted Force weapon, Termi hons.
Sigh i dont mean to be rude, but this is what you should avoid, if you want a good charactor.

Far to much wasted wargear.

For example, the bikes guns will never ever be shot with both a plasma pistol and FOTD or FOTA thats wasteful.

Now, FOTD/FOTA are such powerful shooting attacks that its ok to waste the shooting of the bike for them, however the plasma pistol seem very unnessicary, however if you want to use these powers probably terminator armour is your best 'ride' Rather then a bike.
 
#17 ·
ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
More likely, they will both be tubro boosting, thereafter, the chaplain will be in assault.
Turoboosting's fine but doesn't kill or damage anything. The point I was labouring to make is that the Libby has good killing/damage potential in EVERY phase of a move, not just the cc phase. As I previously pointed out if he turboboosts then there is no shooting at all (including psychic powers) which I agree is a total waste of a Libby.

ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar said:
Sigh i dont mean to be rude, but this is what you should avoid, if you want a good charactor.

Far to much wasted wargear.

For example, the bikes guns will never ever be shot with both a plasma pistol and FOTD or FOTA thats wasteful.

Now, FOTD/FOTA are such powerful shooting attacks that its ok to waste the shooting of the bike for them, however the plasma pistol seem very unnessicary, however if you want to use these powers probably terminator armour is your best 'ride' Rather then a bike.
Well with regard to the wargear costs the bike is the most expensive item and as alexpape7 original question involved a Libby on a bike thats what I have responded to. It is not my choice anyway (Libby on a bike = way too expensive) it was merely an example of how he could be set a bike Libby up.

I can't do much about the bikes guns, that's what you get with the bike so... yes bike shots are wasted. But then bolters or FotA/Fod? As you say not much of a loss.

And the Plasma pistol is used in the shooting phase prior to assault with the force weapon, as you can't use a force weapon AND another psychic power in one turn which rules out Fear, Might etc. It could be downgraded to a bolt pistol (still confers the extra attack) but would lose potency.

So in conclusion, Libby on a bike is do-able but not the best use of him. And due to the cost of the bike, a commander or chappie would be a better choice.

And indeed, termie armour is the best 'ride' for a Libby. That's how I use mine.

cheers
Z
 
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