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effective heavy weapon tactics?

1K views 15 replies 11 participants last post by  NTFH 
#1 ·
What heavy weapons work better in the squads, and which ones work better in you guardsmen squads.

I would like heavy bolters and missle launchers are the best in heavy weapon squads while autocannons and lascannons should be dispersed through your army.

I dont think all 9 shots from the heavy bolters are going to be overkill in killing an infantry squad, so theyd work good grouped together.

But if you have to shoot 3 lascannons at one target, i would hate to get lucky and effectivly waste 2 shots that could have killed other vehicles or monsterous creatures.

I think autocannons would work either way, but for transport hunting i think id be better to put them in your regular squads because like i said with the lascannons it could be overkill.

I dont know about missle launchers though, i think they would work good in both.


So does anyone want to add stuff on the best way to organize and deploy heavy weapons in effective positions?
 
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#2 ·
Well the way I see it guardsmen squad should only do one thing, mainly because guardsmen are cheap so you can have a bunch of squads each with a single purpose. I would go with lascannon and heavy bolters. mainly because each of these weapons has a single purpose, taking out tanks for lascannons and hords for heay bolters.

With a guardsmens ok BS of 3 any hit hitting a tank with a lascannon you want to have the best odds of blowing it up, this mean lascannons over missile launchers. For taking down hords you ant heavy bolters because it has more shots than an auto cannon, and against toughness 3, which is the toughness of most units that come in large numbers, you wound just as easily.

I'm no pro this is just what I think, hope it helps.
 
#3 ·
Ive noticed that autocannons and heavy bolters work well against MEQ's (or mabey im just unlucky when i get shot at :rolleyes: ). Lascannons are pretty good to take a few of, because they can take down tanks and heavy infantry pretty fast. As for positioning, well, it depends on what tactics you are using, and what kind of army you have (lotsa troops, lots of tanks...)
 
#4 ·
I would like heavy bolters and missle launchers are the best in heavy weapon squads while autocannons and lascannons should be dispersed through your army.
My favourite Infantry Squad HW is the formidable Lascannon. Heavy Bolters are my favourite HW Squad choice.
This is, in part, to do with the points cost for each weapon. The Infantry Squad has a lot of wounds to take before that Lascannon stops being effective while the HB HW Squad may not be viewed as a high threat priority to my oponent.

As for the middle of the range weapons like the ML and AC, I prefer these in Infantry Squads but Im not against them going into HW Squads.
 
#6 ·
I'm not like every IG General, but I love Lascannon Heavy support squads:

1> Lascannons are the same price as in troop squads, not 5pts more like every other HW.

2> You don't waste Lasrifle fire of the rest of your troopers while the HW shoots at a tank.

I know they can be targeted, but I like to keep them well back in deep cover with Cameolelene, and I have had great success with these. In my line squads I generally like Missle Launchers because of the dual purpose and instant MEQ kills.
 
#7 ·
Yeah, I'd take the Lascannons in the Heavy Support Teams, where the greater volume equals a greater chance to hit. Plus, there isn't any wasted fire.

Heavy Bolters can make good Support Teams, but belong in regular infantry lines, where they and the combination of their lasguns makes for a high volume of fire that even a Space Marine would cower to.

Then you give them sharpshooters...:shifty:
 
#8 ·
I am new to the IG, and in my HQ Platoon I usually have 2 lascannon squads, a HB squad and a AC squad. In my infantry squads I have a GL and a ML. I really like Malseraphs suggestion of putting a HB with some infantry squads...that IS a lot of rounds going down range!! I also give my heavy weapons Sharp Shooting, and if I have extra points to blow, I will give it to my infantry squads too. I roll a LOT of ones!:wacko:
 
#9 ·
I reckon lascannons should be in standard squads, that way you have lotsa wounds for them. 3 Lascannons with 6 wounds is equivalent to saying "shoot me! I'm valuable!", especially when ye olde pie plate is concerned. Missile launchers are actually very versatile, especially when marines are concerned, because statistically they kill more of them with krak than heavy bolters AND can deal with tanks/big nids/etc.
 
#10 ·
Ok, here's my 2 cents...

You can either have dedicated squads, or spread things out.

DEDICATED SQUADS: Throw in a HB in an infantry squad and possible a grenade launcher. Here you have a simple anti-troop squad, going for number of shots over shot effectiveness. Or you could have a Las-Plas squad as a anti-heavy armour (tank or troop) squad. Or you could simply take 5 grenade launchers/flamers in a conscripts squad, and use them for grabbing objectives. You could then use your lascannons in a dedicated anti-tank HW squad, having a greater chance of killing what you hit...plus not wasting shots from lasgun (yes, yes, it IS possible to WASTE lasgun shots...).

SPREAD OUT WEAPONS: Have say...one out of every three of four infantry squads as an anti-tank squad, or have a squad like HB and plasma for anti-all troops etc...


Anywho, just the thoughts of ...

-The God of all Machines
 
#11 ·
here's something to chew on!

want some more tactical opinion?

in military tactics at section (or squad), and platoon level:
The infantrymen with standard rifles provide defense and eyes for the support weapons. the support weapons are in place to support the movement of lighter equiped infantry, and be put in ideal positions tofire from cover into the open.

lets talk 6' x 4' in real world terms. this is a small area of land. because of the time-frame of a 6 turn game could be an hour to 24hours? because you're not actually taking soo much time to decide where those guys are gonna move and if a machine gun only gets 3 bursts off (heavy bolter?) it's a very quick snippet of time compared to real time fighting.

section commanders and platoon commanders (i'm talking NCMs here) know that they must keep thier support weapons up and running and do what they can to get them sited in a position which will allow them to fire from cover into the open with broad arcs of fire visible.

moving a support weapon in a firefight to the extent of needing to prepare its next position (like losing a turn of shooting to relocate a heavy weapon in game turns) means the section loses from 25 to 50% of it's firepower. in the firefight when the current operator of a support weapon isn't doing his job, the section commander gets a bit angry.

example: section of 10 troops with M-16 variants and 2 American M249 SAWs (Canadian C-9 LMG). when enemy contact is established, and the mission dictates fighting through. the section commander must quickly decide weather to allow his section support to stay and fire from thier position while the other 3 fire teams in the section advance OR have the support weapons take bounds with the rest of the section. if there's a problem and one of the support weapons go down. 25% of firepower gone. the second one goes down.. tht's 50% of the efective firepower. if a squad of 10 guardsmen with a heavy bolter move they've lost up to 50% of thier firepower or more depending on what they shoot at(or could have shot at if stationary) in that turn.. like lasguns shooting at really high toughness?.....

before i get anymore in depth to cover and movement or go into smaller group to team combat in urban terrain.. platoon level attack..so on and so on....boring...

one of the biggest reasons for using the support squads attached to the HQ is freeing up troops to advance with covering fire. a squad of 10 guardsmen with a special weapon and no heavy weapon can constantly move wihtout losing shots while support squads or other support elements fire on enemy positions without losing shooting phases due to movement.

if you have an army that likes to move a lot then support weapons in some 10 man squads are good since you need to move those guys into cover which they will use to give them protection while setting up where others in your army can't see or reach the same arcs of fire.

i wouldn't recommend moving support squads unless they won't be likely to see a proper target for 2 turns.

deployment is critical. think arcs and lanes when you deploy or move heavy weapons in support, command or even 10man line squads.

if there is a decent sized building with forest blocking most of it's view toward the enemy deployment zone... you may not want to jam suppot weapons into it. it can be more tactically sound to site support weapons in forest cover if that forest has better arcs and lanes of fire. think kill-zones.

ideally the supprot weapon should be placed in a terrain feature in a position which allows it LOS in direction of possible enemy approach. also, the LOS should be close to max range before looking at terrain features which the enemy can use for cover or concealment. *site in cover and fire into the open* and don't forget about being able to fire at differnet arcs without movement. if the enemy can reach the support weapons have infantry with special weapons or storm troopers or something that can protect the valued support weapons from assault. support weapons reach out and touch the enmy while protecting regular troops and the regular troops protect the support weapons.

and then there's mortars. in 1700pts i like to take 8. 2 squads of mortar support squad and a mortar in each of 2 command squads/ they are great for taking out infantry belive it or not. they can pin. they are pretty cheap for not requiring LOS and staying behind a terrain feature all game. mortars have been key weapons in many games i've played. mortar support can make your enemy keep his head down or force him to move to you. mortars are great at redceing the firepower an enemy can sit and dish out to you. oh yeah. i also use 1 to 2 bassies... but that's another thread :p

though i am big advocate of support squads.. you have to be wary of all eggs in one basket situations. you don't want to loose all your effective anti-tank because one lascannon support squad got wounded to the last man and your missile launchers are fallingback due to modified ld tests :(
 
#13 · (Edited)
summary

-SITE IN COVER FIRE INTO THE OPEN
-ARCS OF FIRE: the span of LOS available without moving
-LANES OF FIRE and KILL-ZONES: open areas where enemy is ideally caught in open or caught in rough terrain with very poor cover and obstacles
-COVER AND MOVEMENT: very good for light infantry doctrine armies. support weapons fire on enemy which line squads are advancing to, or fire while other squads move into cover at new locations.


to Omnissiah:
when i mention bursts, i do not mean single shots and was referring to the amount of bursts in one game turn. if i had taken the time to get really indepth you would have been reading about:
enfiladed and defiladed positions. cones of fire. types of fire. effectiveness of different imperial guard infantry weapons in; individual, fire team, section and platoon level fire. common platoon support element deployment at platoon commander(officer) level. and so on and so on. and i've already made the posts too long.
 
#14 ·
to what NTFH said

But if you leave both of your M249s in the same place close together, they make a really good target for a grenade type weapon (pie plates). What id do is have 4 men and an M249 advance while the other 5 men provide covering fire, then vice versa. As in haveing a squads with a special and a heavy weapon advance while another squad gives covering fire? And unlike in real life you get to chose who in your squad gets the honor to die for the emperor. Id rather have 10 wounds to take out a lascannon and a plasma gun than 6 wounds to kill 3 lascannons.
 
#16 ·
In real life the 2 LMGs in a squad would be on the flanking fire teams. you may have figured my ocupation by now.

absolutely go for cover and movement. but if you want ot exploit heavy weapons use heavy weapon support squads on the command squad. i take it as far as to take heavy weapon platoon sometimes.
 
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