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Which Army is good against DH ?

3K views 52 replies 24 participants last post by  Deek 
#1 ·
Hi,

My mate is collecting a DH army, and wanted me to collect an army too to play him (i have 4000pt Ogre WHF army)

I was just wondering is there a particular army out there that you guys struggle with?

Thanks
 
#2 ·
DH struggle with anything that is vehicle heavy. Our Greyknights can thin out most horse armies with stormbolter fire, and are pretty tough in close combat hitting most things on threes and wounding on twos on our basic troop choice. The problems come in when we fight very hard hitting armies (dark eldar comes to mind), or armies with lots of armor>12. I haven't played new eldar yet, but I hear their vehicles are impossible for us to kill, and their harlies will dominate GKs in hand to hand.

I think the key in fighting daemonhunters is fighting an attrition war, where you can keep forcing us to lose models because we are not going to have very many. Also if you have the ability to split our forces up because again, we don't have the numbers to divide our firepower; we need to kill everything in one place and then move on to the next target--just make sure that you have a few high priority targets in your army, and the ability to deliver them, and cause some wounds.
 
#5 ·
I was actually thinking of starting Dark Eldar myself but then the models didnt appeal to me so i scrapped that idea, maybe i'll wait until the new codex comes out in like 10 years haha.

But yeah the dark eldar absolutely destroy GK's if you play them right. I made my friend play GK's once while i proxied an entire 1500 point Dark eldar list and i absolutely annhilated my own 1500 point army in 3 turns...so yeah try it.
 
#6 ·
I would suggest Eldar.

They have a brand new codex, so there is no chance of having to buy a new one for quite some time. Also, there are some great additions to their model line since the release of their codex... and the Dark Eldar ones, really aren't that good at all.
 
#8 ·
hmmm

See problem is there isnt a panacea.

Take the cries of Eldar above- but Eldar is quite a quirkey army, it is possible to go pretty boring and out skoot GKs but wouldnt be fun to play, but Eldar can be more interesting and fun however, then you introduce more skill required as a commander. Sure Eldar, configured right, can whoop GK but so can most armies, the trick is the configuration, and knowing your opponent. But if you are going to invest then I would suggest you want a bit more of a dimension

So, in the absence of you saying "I want a shooty army" or mobile/static/assault/elite/hoard then 2 things come to mind:

As diggums said - Imperial guard or perhaps Iron Warriors?
 
#9 ·
May I suggest you start Chaos? DemonHunter and Chaos ... rivalry! :yes:

Your Demon Prince will have fun duelling out with his Grand Master, and your demons will get the sustain attack special rule against DH (only against DH). Chaos is a very fun army to play, they could either go very vanilla style just like every other marines out there, or go specialized like Eldars by taking different patron marked units.

** plus the rumour of new Chaos codex coming out at the end of this year! .. well I hope it's true and I couldnt wait :D **
 
#10 ·
Well, I frown upon choosing an army specifically to counter your buddy's, but I guess whatever floats your boat. AP3 goodness is pretty anathema to Grey Knights. Chaos Iron Warriors are indeed a good choice for this. Chaos will do a good job against DH, long as you are careful about certain things. Keep in mind though, if your opponent gets wise and starts to use anti-Chaos wargear, things could get rougher. But even so, I still stand by the IG or Iron Warriors. Both have enough template firepower to make it a rough day to be a GK.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Mister Bloody SnowGlobe(hotspike18) would know wouldnt he ~_^. I'm just glad he hasn't tried it out yet on me(I know him), but yes templates hurt One Direct shot will more then likely make most of its points back in one volley. Kill 4 and you've gotten 100 points back.
 
#12 ·
Eldar take some time to learn because they are so highly specialized that you have to create tactics and strategies. But once you get the hang of them, there is nothing they cannot kill.

Chaos army Iron Warriors are also pretty good against DH. They are the most un-traditonal chaos army because they do not take daemons of any kind which the Daemon Hunters specialize~ They are one of the shootiest, if not THE shootiest, army available and can pretty much take out everything at range.:ninja:
 
#13 ·
I find both Khron and Mech Tau are very hard to deal with when I play daemonhunter

The Almighty Elder is powerful against all, include Daemonhunters.

Armour company of IG is a bit extreme, but I am sure if you play that your friend's Pure GK army is toast.
 
#14 ·
hey guys

thanks for the responses. Im not only building an army to defeat my mates DH's, there are about 6 others in my areas that play 40k that wouldntr mind giving me a go. Its just that this mate and i go way back and are very competitive, I just like beating him. :D

Im going to try and stay away from the spacemarine type armies like the IG.

im thinking new eldar, but i dont know if i could grasp the technicalities of eldar as a first time 40k player.

what do you guys think?
 
#17 · (Edited)
hah! the simplest fantasy army is far more tactical than the hardest 40k army. Honestly, if you picked up bretonnians and then dark eldar (probably the single biggest finesse army), it'd be the bretonnians that require more tactics. Believe me, eldar should be no problem for you, especially if you're under the watchful eye of the eldar veterans on this very website and you get critique on your army list.

Eldar and tau will do well, you said to stay away from space marine type armies but chaos would be pretty good also like mentioned before, I'd lean more towards combat chaos against DH just for the fun of it even if it won't do as well, heaps of dueling and epic battles if you know what I mean.

:ninja:

EDIT: And your mate knowing all the tricks of FB chaos means nothing in relation to 40k. In FB, chaos has no shooting at all, in 40k they can be one of the most effective shooting armies in the entire game, only some similarities in gameplay but overall they aren't that similar.

:ninja:
 
#16 ·
a fully mechanized tau army is very hard for a DH army to play against. since almost the entire army is in skimmer tanks, GK's can only hit the tanks in CC on a roll of 6. and CC is there best anti tank weapon
 
#18 ·
Two armies: Mech Tau with rapid fire plasma Battlesuits, and Eldar Tanks full of Harlies. You may only pray against them, that is all.

The first army is very hard to kill because You never see the enemy, because of their jumpy rule, as they jump back behind an obstacle after shooting, the second army (eldar) is unkillable, as if You can hit a glancing hit (skimmers, so no more), You have to make two dices, and the lowest is chosen... and the harlies are like madman in CC, and even out of CC they have a far better shrouding than us!
 
#20 · (Edited)
Yeah, Tau are often called cheese, from armes that specilaize in 3+ saves.

umm, but yeah Tau are really effective. You can get very tactically advanced with them as well, and their skimmers are very hard to take down, close to eldar. Also, they have the ability to move and then shoot and then move back again in the same turn, which is often viewed as cheese. I would say Tau or Eldar, both are excellent, have sweet models, are fun to play, and have a new codex. Tau are fairly new as well, and are bound to get tons of new models with 5 generation.

OOOOH, but no one metnioned Necrons yet. The ability to warp out of CC, deepstriking tank, etc. Just devastating, and okay at CC too. They are very resilent as they get up 50% of the time. Vey opposite of Daemonhunters, very epic, and necrons are new as well, and need new models as well, so expect new toys *eventually*.
 
#23 ·
OOOOH, but no one metnioned Necrons yet. The ability to warp out of CC, deepstriking tank, etc. Just devastating, and okay at CC too. They are very resilent as they get up 50% of the time. Vey opposite of Daemonhunters, very epic, and necrons are new as well, and need new models as well, so expect new toys *eventually*.
I imagine that is because Necrons are horrible against Daemonhunters. They have one AP 3 weapon and if they use it that are going to be assaulted, and only one AP2 weapon which no one ever takes. GKT dominate them, and being fearless means the only real hand to hand unit they have loses their special ability when they fight us. I have never fought Necrons and had it go poorly for me...one game my Grand Master killed over 600 points by himself; it was laughable.
 
#21 ·
The Tau would be the easiest/most fun to play, I am borrowing a buddy of mines tau army for a campaign we are having, and kicking the crap out of marines delights me to no end. Now being on the recieving end is no fun with my IG and Nids, although the fun begins when my nids get into cc, yum. :x (I think I just ate too many fire warriors.)

Necrons aren't near as much fun to play as the Tau, not to mention as a first time 40k player, you don't want to have to worry about phase out.

As far as Eldar is concerned, I guess they would do well, I have never tried them out for myself, I just don't like them for some reason, never got beat by em, but they are just annoying.
 
#24 ·
Actually, having looked through the Necron thread and being a Necron player myself I'd say that Monoliths and Heavy Destroyers (with AP3 and AP2 weapons respectively) are used pretty frequently by Necron players, as long as they have them. The only other Heavy Choice, the Tomb Spider gets little use at all in comparison. I've seen tons of list which deploy many of these along with Destroyers and Immortals, who if the firepower won't pierce straight off, will do so soon with the amount of rounds they get in per turn.

The Necron Lord also fires with an AP3. The Nightbringer (he still gets used though less frequently for obvious reasons) gets an AP2 ranged weapon. So there are four units off the top of my head.

HtH is the way to go for some DH, just make sure you get there fast enough because HD/Destroyer/Immortal lists thrive at mid-range battles.
 
#28 ·
If there is enough terrain then my money is still on the stealers...
 
#29 ·
I disagree. Terrain is just as good for us as it is for any 'nids army. I have yet to lose to any Tyranids army -- from almost all 'stealers to hordes to 'nidzilla. Honestly, the "typical" DH army -- based around a solid core of Grey Knights -- has seriously unfair advantages over almost any 'nids army. So much so that given two players of equal skill, the DH player should win virtually every engagement between them.

We can solidly outshoot the 'nids. They have almost no AP3/AP2 weaponry available at all, so we can just sit back and shoot all day if we like. And in close combat, again, overall, we are superior. They can't beat us either at shooting or assaults, so it kinda sucks for 'em.

GKs are every bit a match for hive tyrands and carnifexes. Carnifexes in particular rarely survive the opening round against a squad of GKs (or an eversor assassin, for that matter :ninja:) because his I is too low. And if you allow yourself to be assaulted in cover by the tyrant, it's pretty much hosed as well. Those monsters should not survive more than two rounds in assault with your GKs, ever.

In fact, provided you're willing to stay in cover, the I advantage the tricked out 'nid combatant units have (e.g., warriors, 'stealers, tyrants, raveners) is entirely eliminated. You make them come to you, thin them down with stormbolter fire while they're forced to approach, and by the time they are able to assault you, you'll clean them up right quick.

As for the hordeish units (e.g., gaunts, gargoyles), I can't tell you how many 'nid players have been surprised when their 20-model squad of gaunts is thrashed inside of a combat round or two by just 6-8 of my GKs. The only thing we have to fear from them is getting involved in a lengthy, protracted close combat. Not because we'll ever lose, but only because it stops us from shooting. We do require our stormbolters to carry the day for us. If the 'nids can somehow prevent us from shooting too much, they have a slim shot.

-----

A quality 'cron general can be tough, but if he brings even a single monolith or C'Tan, the game should be in the bag. I've lost to 'crons only rarely (just 3 or 4 games), but those losses were only to pure infantry, almost 100% "Necron" model armies. Every unpure 'cron army I've faced has been forced to phase out, sometimes as early as turn 3.

Monoliths are tough and annoying, but 'cron players always use 'em to get their warriors in rapid fire range. Which can hurt, but is no worse than marines and bolters. Survive that, and then assault them where you cut them down. Monoliths cost so much that you can kill fewer 'crons to reach phase-out. Phase-out is always the goal against 'crons. This is the only opponent where I never ever pay attention to mission objectives. Just focus on killing Necron models and only Necron models, one squad at a time (to avoid them getting WBB rolls) and you should win.

If you stick to this strategy, the only serious threat to you is destroyers. Left alone, they will singlehandedly take you apart. Make sure you kill them off ASAP. 2nd most deadly unit is immortals. They cost only a fraction more than GKs but are, in many ways, better. They're only weakness is their lower I compared to GKs. If you can't manage to shoot them down, then get into assault with them at the earliest opportunity. Once you've eliminated the destroyers and immortals, the game is in the bag, as you can outshoot the rest of the army at range, and out-assault them as well.

Just as with the 'nids, the 'crons are poorly suited to fight against us. Their strengths are actually our strengths as well, only we've got 'em better than they do.
 
#30 ·
I disagree. Terrain is just as good for us as it is for any 'nids army. I have yet to lose to any Tyranids army -- from almost all 'stealers to hordes to 'nidzilla.
We can solidly outshoot the 'nids. They have almost no AP3/AP2 weaponry available at all, so we can just sit back and shoot all day if we like. And in close combat, again, overall, we are superior. They can't beat us either at shooting or assaults, so it kinda sucks for 'em.

GKs are every bit a match for hive tyrands and carnifexes. Carnifexes in particular rarely survive the opening round against a squad of GKs (or an eversor assassin, for that matter :ninja:) because his I is too low. And if you allow yourself to be assaulted in cover by the tyrant, it's pretty much hosed as well. Those monsters should not survive more than two rounds in assault with your GKs, ever.
I disagree back! Ha! LOL.........
I find the only army I have NEVER won with my Grey Knights is my Sons 'Zilla list. It is so shooty, I can't outshoot the 4 Daka 'Fexes and a Shootier than hell Tyrant all with 2 Twin linked multiple S5 and 6 shots for the price of a Chimera Each! Add two shooty S10 venem canon 'Fex's, a winged Hyve Tyrant, two Montor CC 'Fexes that have 2+ saves, 4 wounds and throw in two squads of 12 Genestealers for 1750pts, whewwwwww. It hurts even to type out this list.

I have never lost to a troop heavy 'nid list, but I have never beat the about list with my Grey Knights. Never!:(( We simply don't have the AP2 and 3 to beat them.
 
#32 ·
So you have never seen a really shooty nidzilla list ;)

My recent Tyranid opponent takes :

3x Heavy Carnifex - +1 W, Venom, Barbed (and some minor upgrades)
3x Elite Cernifex of Doom with 2x Linked devourers (so the have like 8 linked shot with S6(?) and to wound reroll)
wingded tyrant with venom and devourer
tyrant with venom and devouver / 2x linked devouver

And all this stay's in nice, deep, warm cover, and behind that cover there are 2/3 units of genstealers for counter charge ;)
 
#33 ·
Wow, that's awesome! That's a completely different beast altogether. I totally rescind my early remarks concerning 'nidzilla lists. (At least, until I actually face a few of these monstrosities myself. I wonder why nobody I know plays it that way....?)
 
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