Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Title says it all really. A curiosity thing that occurred to me a while back. I've never seen any evidence of anyone using shorthand French or whatever, but then again I've never really looked for it, and I don't speak fluent French anyway.
Just to clarify: By 'shorthand' I mean text-speak. The kind of awful, degrading language defilement that so plagues the English-speaking world today. Things like 'lol', 'lmfao', 'rofl' nd mssng out vwls in wrds. To a lesser extent, not using punctuation, incorrect or lack of capitalisation etc. Things that annoy people on these forums because it makes posts virtually illegible. I absolutely despise it. Just curious as to whether other languages have the same problem.
of course i do.
i remember that i red something about the "z" in english speaking countries that is screwing everything up.
In italy we have the same situation, with the k used instead of the "ch" sound and something like that. Also, there is the tendency of forgetting the vowels in the sentences.
But this is due to the 160characters sms limit, and therefore the need to shorten everything: that's why i guess that every country has is way to screw with proper grammar and alphabet.
We do it too in Greece.Especialy in forums where they dont force you on what alphabet to use,some bored guys just dont change lanquage and writte in Greek while using the English/Latin alphabet.We have a name for it too,Greeklish.
Praise be to the Emperor!!
Haha, that's pretty interesting actually. I always assumed it was just Britain and America that had it. Though I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the 'z'. Cheers though, satisfied a nice little curiosity thing of mine
And Greeklish sounds hilarious. XD
You cant imagine how annoying it is to read them!!!
Praise be to the Emperor!!
Of course, i do use shorthand both in Chinese and German.
Yeah, sometimes people use a 'Z' to replace the 'se' following a vowel or anything that could be simplified to a 'Z' sound. Wassup used to be the "wazzup" of the 'dialects' in literature, mimicking the sound of "what's up" when spoken quickly. When "wassup" became a common enough word, people had to shorten it even further, resulting in the Wazup. It doesn't help that a phone brand used the spoken "waz-up" in an add and it became something of a meme or trope.
What you're talking about in the OP isn't really shorthand. I mean, in a way, people could use it as short hand, but there is actually an official system for "American/English Shorthand" (like the radio-alphabet: Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta etc) so that people can understand each others notes. What you were talking about is more of a dialect, like Ebonics or Creole. The 160character limit that you see in texts is speeding up the degradation of the languages (or the up-rise of particular dialects) while also creating a sort of dialect of it's own. For example, nobody reads out the letter 'E.T.C' when they see the shorthand 'etc'. They pronounce the full word, et-cetera. However, people in the US have taken to speaking in chat/net/text speak, treating LOL as a sort of exclamation or interjection in its own right, even going so far as to create a generally accepted past-tense for the verb, "lolled"
Any etymologist will tell you that this is the natural progression of language. For example, we had to assign a new definition to the word "Computer" when the actual computer was invented. Before then, it simply meant someone (or a machine) capable of doing computations. However now the word Computer is synonymous with the machine that you are no doubt reading this on, which is obviously capable of far more than just solving equations. I would not be surprised if, by the end of my lifetime, the words that we so abhor as "txtspk" will make it into the dictionary- either as a notation for the word which they replace ('plz' for 'please') or as words in their own right: Lol v. 'to laugh out loud'.
I hate seeing txtspk personally, just like so many other people. As long as English is an official language, people should know how to speak and write it properly. I also hate how ubiquitous the 'spellcheck' feature has become. For example, spellcheck now automatically corrects confusion of the word 'to' and 'too', as well as the words 'it's' and 'its', and 'there', 'they're' and 'their'. Because people become reliant on spellcheck, their phone's auto-correct feature, or used txtspk, most college students are unable to use the correct words when writing their papers by hand.
However, the argument could be made that this txtspk is a good thing, and I also believe this to be true. There was, at one time, a movement to spell everything in the English language phonetically. Many languages (for example, German- with the exception of the ei/ie sounds) already spell out everything based on phonetics. So for example, the 'C' would disappear entirely, replaced with an 'S' or a 'K'. The movement ground to a halt over the argument of how to deal with vowel sounds, without including silent letters. For example, the word 'Ate' and 'Eight' spelled phonetically would most likely look like 'At'. Now differentiate 'At' (past-tense Eat) with 'At' (location descriptor). It was necessary to have silent letters. This is partially what makes English such a difficult language to learn- it's hard enough to learn all of our homonyms (words that sound the same but mean different things, like 'bill' or 'to') but you also had to learn a convoluted set of rules for spelling the words.
For this reason, txtspk is a minor step towards creating a uniform written language for the world. For example, we declare English the 'Universal Language', like we have here on LO. We then spread the convention of txtspk rather than common spellings. Txtspks focus on phonetics and "out loud translations" takes out most of the ferocious English learning curve. No longer do non-natives have to fret over which 'to/too/two' to use, they simply type "I'm going 2 eat @ Mikes". We read this outloud and understand it. Tsts hvae prevon taht the only letetrs wichh we really need to see are the frist and last, and that the midlde letters can be reordered and we'll still understand them (reading jumbled letters) Did you even notice that I reordered letters in the previous sentence? Txtspk drastically simplifies these middle letters or removes them altogether, making it that much easier to understand and learn the language, provided you already know how to speak it and have a cursory understanding of its alphabet. It is this reason which will likely keep Mandarin Chinese from ever being adopted as a universal langage: it's more difficult to learn and speak than English ever was.
Sorry for the long post, just thought you might find it interesting. Short answer: yes, every language with an alphabet (with the exception of possibly phonetically-based characters, like Japanese Kanji) will have a dialect-based spelling of words, and therefore have some form of shorthand/txtspk.
Last edited by Polaria; July 28th, 2011 at 18:50.
Revenant Moon Necrons: (W/L/D) 0/1/0 (6th edition: 13/2/2)(5th edition: 14/6/4)(3rd edition Codex: 16/4/7)
XIX Legion: (W/L/D) 0/0/0 (5th edition: 14/12/2)(5th edition Codex: 4/3/0)
Black Legion: (W/L/D) 1/0/0 (6th edition: 2/3/0)
Something Wicked... Reikwald Beastmen: (W/L/D) 10/4/1
I find it awful in any language, it's just that obviously being an English speaker and not fluent by any means in any other language (though I speak a smattering of French, German, Spanish and Norwegian) I don't notice it in other languages. Every time I see someone write with it in English it makes me cringe though, it's just unnecessary.