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I had a argument with a girl some days ago about the case of stalin of whether he was evil or not.
The argument before was that some murders could be justifyed, and i said that if someone went to the past and killed stalin, and told everyone then in the future of what potential threat he could have been, i would be praised as a hero!
On the other hand, the girl said that Stalin was NOT in fact, evil, and that he was praised as a somewhat god figure in USSR.
My evidence against this is that even though the russian people were FORCED to like him, they were not completely brainwashed, which is conveyed when after stalins death in 1954 or something, every statue of stalin was torn down and the leader after Stalin, Krushchev, even had a program CALLED 'destalinisation' which just shows he was not liked by anyone, not even by those in the communist party during the time.
So what are your opinions on this?
Stalin was evil, he killed more people than hitlar did in his own pogamies (or something i can't rem exactly)
going back in time might not solve anything though, see Red alert :lol:
But many people in the USSR did/do like him, to say everyone hated him would be wrong.
Men Speak of killing Time, When time is slowly killing them
Ordient Dum Metuant
Evil? A bit hazy.
Ruthless? Most certainly.
"It fits like clothes made out of wasps!"
Well, he took the Soviet Union four years after the civil war ended and took it from a backwards, ravaged area, through the worst destruction any country could possibly suffer during the second world war, and put it into position to threaten the rest of the world by the 1950s. Was he evil? Probably. Was he effective? Definitely.
If it weren't for Stalin the Soviet Union would have collapsed by the 1930s and then say 'hello nazis'. As I wrote above he just did what he had to do to keep the USSR alive. He was, however, a thoroughly unpleasant fellow.
its a common misconception that stalin was evil. in reality he was ruthless and incredibly paranoid, like hitler. the most remembered leaders were paranoid, apparently its a very good condition for gaining power. however i don't think he was evil. he did take the USSR to the status of superpower, even after it lost over 20 million soldiers during the war: more than the rest of europe combined. i think Russia took the brunt of the german war machine more heavily than just about any other country (except maybe poland)
Often the manor in which you defeat your aponents is more important than victory.
To relate that to this situation, was it really better that Stalins USSR beat Hitlers Nazi Germany if Stalins USSR was worse? If Stalin was not so brutal, perhaps the soviet union would have worked the way it was supposed to.
I don't think Americans ever minded Communism the idea, I think they just didn't like the Communist dirty bombers attacking them in the 20's and Stalin simply couldn't be trusted. A better relationship with non-communist countries probably would have insured a longer lasting, and more prosperous, Soviet Union.
Not to mention, you know, the whole idea of killing off your own people even when you desperately need them to fight your enemy. The USSR diserves a lot of credit for fighting the Nazi's, but Stalin can hardly be considered the good guy when he killed off his own people nearly as quickly as his enemies.
Evil? No man is evil all of the time, nor is he ever good all of the time. Stalin did a lot of good and a lot of bad. He will be REMEMBERED as evil however, because the bad things he did overshadow the good.
Personally i think he was a detrament to his own country. Firstly, he kills about 10 million farmers, (i won't include the parts about him taking the childeren in trucks and dumping them off while still alive in the barren lands) which is crippling to an economy. You want to know why russia lost so many in the war? because half of the soldiers didn't have guns, and none had helmets at all. One soldier carried the gun while the other one carried and extra clip. When the first man died the other man picked up his gun.
About communism though, people in america did hate it, or at least the majority. People were imprisoned in america of being suspected communists (kinda like terrorism today.)
About people in Russia now days, 9/10 people love stalin. Why because it was friken totalitarianism! There was propaganda even the U.S. can't match. Like someone said above they were forced to like him. Otherwise they were tortured and killed. Hell even if you did actually like him you might be torutured and killed.
The only reason the U.S.S.R. became powerful in the 50's was because they had nukes. That is the only reason. Before the russians had the A-Bomb they were only a threat in occupied germany. Trust me, russia is, was and won't for some time be "prosperous."
Of course he was evil! He murdered, starved, and worked millions of people to death!
'It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees'-Pancho Villa
'You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it'-Malcolm X
And what was the reason the US became a superpower after the war? Its winning ways? Trust me, it was the exclusive use of atomic weapons.Originally posted by bloodinferno@Nov 28 2004, 20:25
The only reason the U.S.S.R. became powerful in the 50's was because they had nukes. That is the only reason. Before the russians had the A-Bomb they were only a threat in occupied germany. Trust me, russia is, was and won't for some time be "prosperous."[snapback]260374[/snapback]
Face it, if it weren't for the Soviets taking up the brunt of the nazi forces then the D-day invasion most americans fondly remember as winning the war would have ended up in another Dieppe. In the summer of 1944 the Soviets were almost on the Vistula and were facing up to 80% of the German Order of Battle.
Russia will probably be on par or even more prosperous than the US in the next 50 years - they have a desire to work and plentiful natural deposits. The financial crisis they faced was understandable given the change of political system. I would like to see the americans fare better if their whole world was turned around overnight.
Ah Stalin...great monster of the twentieth century. He proved that one needed only to sacrifice 50 million on the altar of progress to achieve "modernity." I use that term loosely, they still were finding unexploded bombs under playgrounds after German reunification. The Russian army defeated the Nazis despite Stalin. That is what is so remarkable about the war in the East. People eagerly point to the Russians as the winners of the war and like to take away from the importance of D-Day. American and British troops are the only reason why the West was not taking orders from Moscow between 1945-1991. We should have listened to Churchill when he wanted to open the invasion through the Crimea so American and British troops would have been in E. Europe. Oh well. Let's be sure not to tell that fact to anyone who lived in the Eastern Bloc. They might act irrational.
It appears the Stalinist apologists are alive and well. Its odd to hold the position that Stalin was not evil when the people living under him referred to their leader as "Satan." Even Noam Chomsky grudgingly admits that Stalin was a monster.
Here is a decent bio on Stalin. Heres the real question: Was he worse than Mao?
â€œCry â€˜Havocâ€™ and let slip the dogs of war!â€? - Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene I