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Let me start by asking that you not bring politics into this thread.
Politics are not welcome here and if you cannot respond without making political comments then I must ask you not to respond at all.
This thread is about the discovery, manufacture, and distribution of alternative fuel and energy sources. And a smattering of raging at corporations squishing the little guy. Save any other comments for the day they once again are welcome at LO.
So let me begin.
I am really not digging the new gas prices. Maybe you have not been affected in your daily life but I cannot escape them. My cars, my lawnmower, my weed eater, my chain saw all require the 'devil's piss' (that's petroleum if you haven't figured it out :p ).
Some would argue that if I can afford all that I deserve to pay heavy gas prices. Maybe I do. But even if I only had 1 car it wouldn't change the price of gas for it. Even if I bought a goat to do all my landscaping, oil companies would still make insane proffits.
It seems inescapable. But what are the alternatives?
Gerbil power? (hehe)
What does the future hold?
I admit to a sad lack of knowledge when it comes to what's just over the horizon.
Is it really only conspiracy theory to believe that oil companies and auto manufacturer's are sitting on alternatives just to covet their power base?
Are world wide patent offices brimming with suppressed hope for the down trodden slaves to the oil?
What I have seen so far for different solutions aren't very impresive. Either it is some kind of "grown oil" or more exotic like the fusion power alternative. Scientist are trying to recreate the same procedure that happens every second in the sun when atoms are smashed into each other and in that way creating a chain reaction with massive energy releases. (please correct me if I have given the wrong details) The thing is that it take very high temperatures for the process to start and that's the main problem right now, we don't get enough energy out of the primary process. This kind of alternative is still 50-60 years forwards in time so it still needs much researching and tweaking.
The use of those grown oils are definativly the closest one, haven't heard so much about it though so please post more information.
I don't think the oil companies have a conspiracy to keep us from new technology that can replace oil, I mean how can they keep anything hidden from the goverment (the x-files anyone?? )
What we need is something to put a torch behind the scientist working with these kind of solutions, when the demand is so huge and when nations collapse under the pressure then they must find a solution, that's when the alternative will be discovered no sooner I think.
I believe we don't have any problem reaching the required temperatures for hydrogen fusion, the problem lies in the fact we can't control the reaction long enough to generate electricity efficiently. The ions are all moving at great speeds at a high temperature around a large donut with massive magnetic fields. I might look it up for a reference if anybody wants one. They have gotten fusion to occur and energy released, but the process is so unstable it doesn't last long enough to boil water.
An interesting alternative to petrol I have seen is hydrogen fuel. Again I should look it up before I say more than I know. I do know that it will provide enough power for cars, so that high speeds of 160km/h 100m/h are possible, and they have developed a way that consumers can 'fill up'. Using cartridges they'd be able to 'pump gas', except this will be a gas, compressed into liquid. The problems lie in that they want to develope a sytem that has no chance of blowing up, as compressed hydrogen would be a fair bit more explosive than petrol. Also it is more expensive than petrol, so this product won't go far in the consumer world until that changes.
to the wind power thing: that only works in places where wind is pretty much a constant and is abundant, such as spots in California. also, there needs to be lots of windmills to generate enough power for consumer usage, so that is very expensive.Originally Posted by Joker
to the solar power: only works in regions with lotsa sun... also expensive... takes massive amounts of solar panels... cars would be slooooow i.e. 30 mph top speed
to the hydrogen cells: they spew out h2o cells instead of pollution, but that is another form of pollution. h2o makes global warming worse. it is a greenhouse gas. it will trap more heat in the earth and thus more global warming. in short hydrogen cells suck.
gerbil power: good idea mayb some people who like to run will join in and power their own vehicles or you could hire yourself out to run people's vehicles.
basically the future holds lots and lots of devil's piss... barring a miracle energy production source that is pretty much unlimited and cheap to produce and buy.
the only reason i know all this is because i took an environmental science course...
another possible option is biogas.
biogas; the decompsistion of living matter making gas (cant remember names)
solar farms equipped with die solar cells ( they work better in less light than normal cells)
[QUOTE=bonjordo]another possible option is biogas.
biogas; the decompsistion of living matter making gas (cant remember names)
is that methane?
Not too sure about methane, but I know that processed feces can provide power, cow crap in particular, and thats something we have in mass quantities.is that methane?Originally Posted by bonjordo
Veni Vidi Variant
I came, I saw, I got a different type of Leman Russ.
The spikey ones go faster.
98% of the teen population has smoked weed, the other 2% went straight to crack.
Saga of the Ages. Click it.
Rules for grenades are on page 72 of the rulebook.
cows just don't know when to stop being useful do they?Originally Posted by sithjack
and with "hydrogen cells suck" h2o is a greenhouse gas aye, but easily forms a liquid and washed out of the atmosphere. it is in otherwords it is by and large a much less dangerous greenhouse gas to produce. don't confuse that sentence. it is also one of the major greenhouse gases. but producing more will have little effect on the amout of h2o gas there already is. which means that hydrogen cells rule.
I'm not trying to be difficult, but isn't h2o water?
Is it dihydrogen dioxide(h2o2) or hydrogen dioxide (ho2) that is the ozone killer you guys are refering too?
Please correct me if I got screwed up.
As far as fuel cells go there is a great website you may want to look at:
Good stuff there.
And for solar cells:
And for hybrid automobiles:
There's little doubt that changing energy sources is going to be expensive. And some people are going to ***** about not having their v8's, v10's or v12's acceleration and top end speeds. But just like high definition tv's cost thousands of dollars a few years ago (admittedly some still do) eventually the price will fall with consumer acceptance and mainstream purchasing.
Last edited by Joker; April 7th, 2005 at 14:20.
As to the prices of oil asking not to bring politics into it is like asking not to bring physics into black hole theories. Sorry to point that out but oil simply IS politics - at the current moment hammered out by USA, Russia, China and OPEC.
As to the alternatives - hydrogen. The reserves are inexhaustible, everyone has it, technology now allows for it's utilization. It is the truth that the attempts at hydrogen propulsion have so far been unimpressive, but they have been condacted when oil was plentiful and cheap. Since it has become expensive and the only large sources in the world are erratic and unstable (furthermore - some predictions expect them to run out in 20-30 years), I expect the hydrogen research to kick off.
You may wish to read this as a sign of the things to come:
Note however that propulsion is not the only thing out there. All the plastics industry is totaly dependent on the oil and I have absolutely no idea what could be used as a substitute.