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I saw someones signature saying Meat is Murder and I was wondering if anyone shared this view and if so why?
Please don't get angry, don't want to start any flaming or anything, but heres something to think about when answering, why does a cow have more right to life than a cabbage?
Honestly mate, it does look like flaming, you are challenging peoples belief system, a very dodgy thing to do.
Now me I not vegeterian in any way, but quite clearly there is a ditinction between a cow and a cabbage, quite appart from the taste, to do with conciousness and at a lower level, a central nervous system and a brain,
That said, as for "meat is murder", my opinion has always been that "actually, repeatedly stabbing someone is murder"
Ya know, I'm quite wary of people who have a Hannible Lecter poster as their signature talking about how meat isn't murder.
Where exactly do you live again? So that I can avoid the place?
I am challenging their belief system, yes, but mainly I am asking them to challenge mine.
My question about the cabbage is why is a cabbages pain response less relevant than a cows, why is the fact that a plant responds through a slower chemical system a reason to say that it is less or more concious or aware than an animal that responds through an electrchemical series of signals.
I'm from Liverpool hourglass, but this is really an attempt to start a serious debate I am genuinely curious as to the mindset of people who believe that to eat meat is the same as murder because an animal dies, whilst to eat a vegetable is not despite the causation of the death of a plant.
Also I am going to pose another question now, particularly to you cheradine, what is this clear distinction you see and where is the line drawn, not to mention why is it drawn there?
The person in question would be Nagato who has the saying in huge pink letters IIRC :p
As for the "meat is murder" argument.
Animals have a much higher self-awareness than a plant, and a far far more developed nervous system. However... when a fox kills a rabit, is that murder? when a snake kills a mouse is that murder? Nope, they kill from instinct to eat and survive. So, is there any difference if a human kills a cow to eat? Humans are after all only highly developed animals.
Ummmm, not to get flamed into oblivion or anything, but a post like this is very much likely to start a flame war. Which is precisely why why I made light of the topic; so that we don't start getting each other banned from our "special" forum.
I mean, people don't put something in 24 point colored font unless they have strong emotional (Whether irrational or not) feelings about an idea.
My personal opinion is one based on religion. So I'll just leave it at that, since religion is probably a no-go for this topic.
What eveidence do you ahve that an animal has any more self-awareness than a plant? And why is the level of developmet of the nervous system relevant? A plant has a chemical rather than electrochemical response system, this is slower, but still systemic. Also what makes you think animals, besides us, chimps and dolphins, are self aware?Originally Posted by Knape97
To hourglass I thought that was kind of the point of this area we can talk about mroe controversial topics sensibly I certainly won't participate in any flaming if it starts, which will probably cause the theread to die, but I don't see why it should if everyone is willing to ahve a sensible discussion, I am as I said curious about how people who hold the view that meat is murder come to that conclusion and where lines are drawn regarding it.
Is killing an insect murder? If not, why not? A fish? Bacteria? An amoeba? If so, then why not a plant?
See what I mean?
Yes. Meat is murder, and murder is delicious. I've never understood why anybody would feel bad about eating another animal. The way I see it, we as a species have earned our place at the top of the food chain. We fought our way thier with no claws or teeth or even enough fur to keep us warm. We used to be food for animals that had claws and teeth and fur and stuff, and now we eat them because we where smarter and figured out how to climb up the ladder.I fully realise that an animal must die that I may live. I'm ok with that. If I am one day eaten by a higher life form I'll be ok with that too.I at least die with the satisfaction of knowing that I was bested, fair and square, by a creature that was obviously superior. I seriously doubt there are cows out in a field somewhere lamenting over the fact that they will one day be nmurdered, or that it is thier entire family's fate to be butchered and consumed. They don't care, because they know the score. They know that untill they evolve a means to climb higher on the food chain, things are gonna eat them. At least that's the way I see it. Now as far as a distinction and drawing lines, heck I'd eat a person if I was starving. I really doubt I'd have any psychological or emotional problems with cannibalism. The only things keeping me from doing it now are that it's illegal, there are better food scources more readily avialable for far less effort, and that I imagine people taste pretty foul. Plus eating an obese person seems about as appetising as eating a squid, both I'm sure are highly edible, but yech..would you wanna put your mouth on that?
Oh why i belive meat is murder?
The conditions during the slaughtering and the subsequent production and consumption of meat and animal products is unethical and unacceptable treatment of animals.Killing an animal for food is wrong because the animal does not want to die and is given no choice, the 'family' and 'friends'(dont mocker me) of that animals will suffer as a result, the animal has hopes for future enjoyment which are denied, the animal enjoys living and the animal experiences varying levels fear and pain in the process of being killed.People have assumed that intelligence is linked to the ability to suffer and that because animals have smaller brains they suffer less than humans. That is a pathetic piece of logic, sentient animals have the capacity to experience pleasure and are motivated to seek it, you only have to watch how cows and lambs both seek and enjoy pleasure when they lie with their heads raised to the sun.
Also i find meat, animal products, and their production unappetizing and emotionally disturbing.
MEAT IS MURDER
Nagato, what are your feelings when a Fox kills a Rabbit? Is that murder in your eyes?