Welcome to Librarium Online!
Yes, this was going to come up, so I thought I better do it.
First off I think the US going to Iraq (for the reasons they did) was a bad thing. Getting rid of Sadam Hussien was a very good thing. Excellent. Going in for the invisible WMDs... that was a bit iffy. Also Powell lost alot of credibility. And I liked him. Also it ticks me off abit to think a while ago the US was supporting Iraq against Iran.
However, the situation has got worse, untill it now seems to become as self fullfilling prophecy: President Bush said that America left Iraq then it would become a hot bed of terrorist acticity, which it will, but that is why they went there in the first place (one of the reasons anyway) to stop that happening.
Additionally it has upset the power balance. Iran is now unnoppsed by any power in the region (save Isreal and the US troops) and could potentially conquer the area.
I also feel sorry for the Troops in Iraq (we Aussies have troops) and I imagine they must feel pretty mixed up at the moment.
I also feel an urging that the US should go kill Muagbe of Zimbabwe. I want to kick his ass. If they want to depose dictators then get Muagbe, its not like he can even hurt them, and everybody hates him.
I'd like to stress this is not an attack on the American people, I've met many, and all have been wonderfull loving people. Its only a few fools who ruin that great image. :yes:
Thats just my views, and hay, I might be on crack. :w00t:
Ahhhh, I see this a lot, but I have a very good reply to it. The reason that we helped Iraq against Iran was to keep the balance of power in the Middle East. At the time, there was a very very good chance that Iran was going to win that war, which would have left them completely unchecked in the Middle East because Isreal wasn't ready to deal with them yet and there were no US soldiers there.Also it ticks me off abit to think a while ago the US was supporting Iraq against Iran.
Now hindsight is always 20/20, so we can look back now and go "Wow, that was a bad move". However, the same people who are now saying that it was a bad move, were supporting it 20 years ago when they didn't see those missiles shooting down US troops.
Now alliances shift a lot. In 1776 no one would have predicted that in 1946 we would be strong allies with Britain. Whoever thought that both of the aforementioned countries would ever be going to the aid of France after Waterloo? Yet we landed on Normandy and saved their wretched thankless arses many years later.
Just some food for thought about the whole aiding Iraq and then fighting them deal, but who knows maybe I'm on crack.
Well H0urg1ass, you do make some good points. It makes a little more sense to me than it did before, but it still rubs me up the wrong way.Hey! That was a line I stole from you!but who knows maybe I'm on crack.
But who knows, maybe I'm on crack! :w00t:
Hey, don't get me wrong. It rubs me the wrong way too, I mean, it's my brothers and sisters getting shot down by our own missiles out there. Including my Australian, British and Canadian brothers and sisters.
The only difference is that I can tolerate it because I know the reason why it's happening and I realize that it's not the weapons shooting down my brothers and sisters it's the people holding the weapons. Killing takes place in the heart of a killer, the weapon is only a tool.
Very profound H0urg1ass. You make some good points.
Its also nice to know that you have some Aussie relatives! Howabout that?
I was at a party once and talking to this guy who works for one of the liberal senators. I was talking to him about Iraq and we had a huge and brain-destroying dicussion because he said when you see injustice you should stop it, even if it's in another country, and quoted Dr. King at me.
I said that only perpetuates war, and that every nation has to learn from it's own mistakes not to oppress their people, which I'm confident they will eventually, as oppression is clearly a bad thing and always eventually results in revolution when people hit their breaking point. IMO going in and forcing somebody into being like you is pretty much going to guarantee they won't really listen to anything you say, they will simply hate you and take out their anger on people weaker than them. So even though it hurts us to see oppression all over the world, I think we have to put our emotions in check and hold back our armies, and let everyone come to the realization that our way of life is the most pleasant by example. All we need is a strong enough army to make sure they can't harm us. Topplng dictators by force just slows down the process of advancement, even though it seems the right thing to do at the time.
He said "I have nothing I can possibly say to that. That's the most ridiculously post-modern argument I have ever heard in my life!" So we decided to stop talking about Iraq and went and got another beer because there was no way we could even remotely agree. I don't know what the moral of that story is, sorry. I guess I am glad that I can drink a beer and talk about such horrible events without ever having to live them, and I dearly wish everyone in the world could say the same. I think most people feel the same way but we all have differnt ways we think it can be achieved.
I think I just said a similar thing to Onlainari but in 200 words instead of 20!
EDIT: Sorry about that rambling post, I'm taking a lunch break from writing a philosophy essay and I think my brain must be stuck in abstract thought mode... you guys must be all sitting there thinking "what the HELL is that guy talking about?!"
I need a beer, right now! :wacko:
Last edited by Kahoolin; October 10th, 2005 at 02:38.
onlainari, have you been called a freak today? I mean this in the nicest way, just wondering.Lord Yos, I hate to be a pessimist, but, Iraq had WMDs. Remember the Khurds about 15 - 20 years ago? They all got nerve gassed. Any chemical or bio weapons that were around got destroyed when the UN announced that they were sending inspectors in. These weapons can be destroyed VERY quickly, leaving little, if any, evidence. Also, don't forget that Iraq has a LOT of desert. Lots of places to hide this stuff, if they did decide to keep it. I believe that there were WMD in Iraq, but, like I said, it was either destroyed or hidden.Originally Posted by Lord Yossanrion
This doesn't mean I support the war in Iraq, just that the reasons given were valid reasons, (mabe not appropriate, but, valid).
A little pain never hurt anyone - Larry
I can see you point Hersh. Perhaps when I said "invislbe WMDs" I should have said "Weapons that in all probabiltiy and IMHO couldn't touch America, and many Americans, at least from Iraq".
I still think we should go and kick Mugaube's ass.