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I think they are all wrong
I am not interested in politics
Everyone in here seems to mention that they are left or right wing in politics, so I thought it was time we finally found out who outnumbers who among the enhanced members. Don't reply (or reply anonymously) if you feel like you may be victimized or whatever. I'm just interested as to me it seems that we are all intellignet and the spread of political leanings seems about even. Hopefully this will show anyone who doesn't realize that the other side are not misinformed/stupid/evil, and that there are equally compelling arguments in every side of a debate. Otherwise it wouldn't be a debate.
So I'll go first. My views on the way the world should be are not informed by any ideology, instead I think about individual issues and make up my own mind, which means that my beliefs are inconsistent with every political agenda. Some of my beliefs are more commonly held by "lefties", others by "rightists", and some by neither.
How about you?
Last edited by Kahoolin; October 25th, 2005 at 06:11.
Politics-wise, I am an independent. I do have left-wing leanings though, mainly the belief that public utilities should not be sold off (they are there to provide a service, not to make money). I vote more on whether I find a politician trustworthy or not, rather than on their policies or because my parents/me always voted for Labor/Liberal/etc (sadly, most Australians seem to vote for the same party their parents did).
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Left Leaning. But any extreme is bad.
Moderation in all things.
Labour vs. Liberal? They both are pretty bad. I don't know who is worse.
I think both wings are necessary evils that the left, right and center need to maintain balance.
They show what politics are like when you are psychotic. :tongue:
I am definately on the right, although I have been known to vote for the best man for the job.
I like to have smaller government, with less involvement in my personal life.
I really dislike having higher taxes just to pay for crack addicts and losers to wander their way through life on my dime. Although the truly needy are deserving of my help so some limited social programs are ok.
I find war distastefull, but necessary to achieve peace through strength, because peace through any other means has never existed.
I want my government to do everything to ensure that I have clean water and air and lower emissions in factories and autos, but if I have to pay $10 a gallon for gas to make some tree hugging wacko feel better about not disrupting the mating cycles of grubworms then I have to draw the line.
I'm a gun owner and advocate gun ownership for hunting and home protection. Although some guns should be banned from personal ownership such as automatic weapons and grenade and rocket launchers.
That should be enough ammunition for the left to pounce on me good. But beware hippies, I have more.:shifty:
Last edited by Joker; October 25th, 2005 at 14:33.
Politics bore me.
I don't like debting them, and I really don't like discussing the merits of my ideas vs. the merits of other's ideas because we both think we are right and it will get us nowhere.
Long ago, I used to believe I was a liberal. I always liked them because they were progressive, modern and had a lot of revolutionary ideas. Then someone made a challenge to me one day. They told me to write down all of the things that I believe in and why.
I did this. I made a list of the ideas that I hold dear to my heart and I wrote down why. No, I will not share this list with others. These are deeply personal opinions and I don't feel like debating them. To me I am right and if I'm wrong, then I'm sure God will let me know when he returns and pulls my worm ridden corpse from the ground. If there is no God, then it's impossible for me to be wrong and that's even better.
As it turns out, I am actually much more right leaning. No, I'm not a full blown conservative. I do have ideas that are more to the left than most conservatives, especially on issues concerning censorship and anything having to do with extreme religious views. Any extreme religious views.
For most of us it's too late to make that list becuase we are already fully embroiled in our points of view. Thankfully, I was challenged to challenge my beliefs when I was only 15 and luckily my youthful rebelliousness didn't override good sense for once. I still challenge my beliefs to this day mostly for the purpose of not becoming set in my ways.
I put right leaning, although I've never voted for a right wing party in my (admittedly short) voting life. I've stuck to many different ideologies over the years, and I've often been forced to rethink them. Holding to any opinion to the extent that changing it would be impossible is a very dangerous thing.. you should be prepared to adjust according to the evidence. My current view, therefore, is based on the evidence gathered so far throughout my life.
I believe very strongly in right wing economic policies.. I don't believe it's efficient for a state to try to limit or regulate the economy through taxation and legislation, because I don't believe any centralized body has the right, or the capability, to manage such a huge and diverse construction as a national economy. The right wing argument that greater economic freedom and low taxation brings economic growth which, in turn, creates employment and wealth has always made more sense to me.
Ultimately, the right is a highly socially inclusive doctrine for me, however. I do believe economic growth should enrich everyone, not merely segregate the poor from the rich. I guess my ultimate economic model would be the old Japanese system which, although now waning, is still evident in some companies, whereby cooperation and accord between company and employees is encouraged. While in Japan, I took a visit to a Toyota Factory in Toyota city, and some of the differences in the working system there really were incredible to witness.
That system had its problems, of course, particularly its short lived nature, and its dependence on economic stability. But I still think it was an extreme improvement on the way things are done in many other parts of the world.
What I can't stand about the right though is the way, particularly, I hate to say, in America, it's policies have remained mired in regressive and frankly illogical social issues. Right wing parties oppose free immigration, for example, yet immigrants represent a massive economic resource which, historically, have always bought fantastic benefits to a nation's wealth. I'm not interested in issues about identity, culture, religion, ethics and social control.. These aren't things for national government to think about. I'd rather hear them talk about what they're actually going to do for me, i.e. create growth, new jobs, and make us all wealthier, happier people.
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; October 25th, 2005 at 20:19.
I have to say that I don't find this entirely accurate. No one that I'm aware of is against legal immigration.Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
It's only against illegal immigrants.
If someone is disrespectful enough of our laws to the point of breaking them just to get in, they are undeserving of citizenship.
We have a process that we like our immigrants to go through to become citizens, considering all the beneifits available to them upon completion, I don't feel that is too much to ask.
I think my comment was unclear.. by free immigration, I meant low levels of immigration control.Originally Posted by Joker
I'd actually question why laws restricting immigration are there. Apart, perhaps, from those with serious criminal convictions, I don't see the neccesity of preventing people from living where they wish to. It's not like there's a particularly limited ammount of space..
I don't accept the 'taking our jobs' argument either. In the UK at least, most migrant workers tend to be employed at the very bottom of the job market. British people could apply for these jobs, but they aren', because the pay and benefits are too low. Also, by contributing to the economy, migrant workers are helping to create more jobs in general, reducing overall unemployment.
Of course, that's not the whole story. I won't deny there are cases of people abusing the system. However, I think the tabloids paint a very misleading picture. Most migrants who come to the UK want to work, and they contribute far, far more by doing so than the few 'bad' cases take away.
Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; October 25th, 2005 at 20:38.
I don't think it's entirely about restricting immigration; although the process tries to ensure some balance. It's mostly about registering, and background checking and so on.Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
There is some degree of control exercised because no country can support a glut of unskilled immigrants looking for handouts, so I believe all countries give deference to the immigrants that have skills and try to offer the unskilled placements in jobs where thay can learn a trade. Lots of people make fun of the number of immigrants driving taxi's in New York, but hell at least they are trying to make a living.
Too many Americans are sitting on their fat asses soaking up 'free money' ( read actually 'My Money' in the form of taxes! ) from government programs and laughing at Mexican migrants that are working their asses off to make a living here and bring their family with them.
I'm of the opinion that there are no demeaning jobs, only demeaning people. No matter what you do, good for you for trying!
Pride should never stop you from working for a living. If it's just a minimum wage job and you can't make ends meet, then get a second job, or try to learn a skill, or apply for the apropriate aid.
In most cases I agree that people should be allowed to live where they want, but if the only reason people are moving to another country is to become a leech on their society, then that society should have every right to tell them, "Sorry we got enough losers here as it is."
Fair enough.. Maybe I was generalizing.
But, as far as my limited knowledge tells me, the British right wing is quite closely linked to the idea that immigration should be more limited, possibly with quotas and more stringent critera, and that a cultural hegemony should replace multiculturalism. I don't agree with either of these.. They remind me of the French approach, which, actually, has very little to show for itself after many, many years of its policy save a rampant xenophobia and disafected ethnic minorities lacking in any sense of identity.