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Why is Communism alwyas potrayed in such a negative light? I've always wondered about this, and I was hoping some members of L-O could enlighten me on the subject.
Communissim is portrayed (in a somewhat correctly) bad light becasue of the atrocites that communists nations such as The Former Soviet Union, North Korea, and China have, and still do practice, and we won the war. Also, cold war fears are still out there about "commies" trying to nuke you and hour family. Or listening to this post right now... :ninja:
I try to live my life by Marxcist Principles - everyone is equal, everyone should be give an equal chance, etc. but prefer my government to be not Communist but Capitalist. Why? Becasue Communnism relies on people always helping other people, and not being selffish. And does that ever happen? No.
Communnisim will never work because of human faults. Its a nice idea, and has good principals, but in practice it goes down the tube. Try to put some of the good principals in your life and that will be as Communnist as you need to get. Capitalist free market is much better economy wise (who won the cold war?), and often better for the people.
That said, I don't fundamental/extreme capitalists either.
Moderation in All Things
Who actually says that communism is a "bad thing", probably some kind or western capitalistic propaganda. Same with "Communism is Fascism with human face".
MEAT IS MURDER
I believe that a persons worth is based upon how productive they are as a member of society. I also believe that the individual should be responsible for his own needs and taking care of him/herself and their family.
Communism, as it is practiced, believes that all members of society have the same "worth" and that individuality is wrong.
It's not that communism is inherently evil. It's not. In fact it was created by people who had good intentions. The problem is that when this system of government is put into place it gives the ruling class entirely too much power to do whatever they want, and I can't abide by that.
I'll take good old democratic capitalism any day, where I am judged by how productive I am and I can dye my hair purple if I want.
Well, there's Communism and communism.
Communism with a capital 'C' is the politicized version of Marxism. It is evil simply because the west says it's so. The West is decadent because the Communists say so.
Communism with a lower-case 'c' is the notion that a group of people can live and work together in the interest of the common benefit. No one has ever said that form of communism is evil, just counter-culture hippie stuff, at worst.
Examples of functioning communist societies in America and abroad include the Amish in Pennsylvania and Ohio, the Shakers in Maine, the Oneida in New York, or the various kibbutzes in Israel.
Monasteries and Convents could also be construed as small communist groups.
WHFB: Dwarfs || WH40k: Imperial Fists, Necrons || WM/H: Trollbloods || BFG: Necrons
Communism has become associated in the popular western mind with tyrany and genocide. The top two genocidal regiemes of the 20th century both purported to be communist, after all. Frankly, every attempt to put marxism into political effect has failed to achieve his original objectives.
However, I also think it's a cop out to claim that Stalinism, Maoism and the like are not communism because they didn't conform with the ideas of Karl Marx. What some german dude in the 19th century wrote seems irrelevant to me next to millions of people declaring themselves communists under a party state.
However, even if we narrow it down to Marxist communism, we have to admit the guy was pretty naive, it blatantly ignores a vital element:
In order to change the world, you need to control the world. The implimentation of a popular revolution needed to establish Communism requires someone to subsequently take control and prevent the result from being bloody and violent anarchy, rather than communism. Then, of course, you have the problem of sustaining the regieme, and preventing reactionary forces regaining control. Thus, you need a state to organize things, and viola.. bye bye to the idea of everyone independently sharing and being self governed.
People who accuse Lenin of betraying the revolution ignore the fact that, without his leadership, the revolution wouldn't have survived. Someone needed to take Lenin's role, he did, and we know what the result was. We can even forgive his paranoia towards the end of his rule, considering he was shot in the head at point blank range by a reactionary assassin. A communist leader, in theory, has the power to dissolve government and let the people run themselves, as Marx intended.. but can he do it in reality? Not without saccrificing any hope of long term Communism.
I don't think Communism is evil, however. We have to place Marx in an industrial revolution context, and remember that he was surrounded by human suffering and exploitation on a level we can't hope to understand. His theory, when seen as a reaction to this, becomes infinately more understandable. We can also appreciate Marx' grand effect on our world and our societies, particularly those of us in Europe.
Communism was never an evil idea, after all, there's no such thing as evil. The mechanics of the world, however, would seem to ensure that it will never achieve its goals, and will generally dissolve into a bloated, overpowerful state with no responsibility towards its citizens. This is what I, personally, would oppose in communism, because I'm a self interested being, and I don't want to be killed by a mob for wearing glasses, or shipped off to Siberia.
Quite simply because it is not our system. We must maintain at least the illusion that our system is better than the alternative, or else why are we doing it?Originally Posted by Bobby Wokkerfella
Note, I'm not saying our system isn't better than Communism, I think capitalism generally leads to a better quality of life, but whether it is better or not we HAVE to denigrate Communism as it is ideologically the opposite of what the west terms a good government. Hence Communism is called "oppressive" (because we value "freedom") and "poverty-stricken" (because we value "wealth").
By the same token Communist societies frequently characterize capitalist regimes as "decadent" (as they value "austerity") and "selfish" (as they value "working together").
Last edited by Kahoolin; November 2nd, 2005 at 23:14.
I have always felt that the fatal flaw in communist societies (please note the lowercase 'c') is that it requires that all members of the society "buy into" the ideals of said society.
Working towards a common goal is not something that comes naturally in human behavior, so everyone involved has to consciously want to be a member of that society. This will begin to fall flat as soon as the second and third generations arise.
The second generation will be raised by the first, so they will receive the teachings of the society first-hand, though they may not believe in it. The third generation, however, will only receive the parroted teachings by the second generation, and will begin to actively question the system...at which point the commune begins to break down, as most systems like that don't deal well with dissent.
WHFB: Dwarfs || WH40k: Imperial Fists, Necrons || WM/H: Trollbloods || BFG: Necrons
The problem with communism in practice is that it assumes that all parts will contribute to the whole, but ignores the facts that
a) Some will inherently contribute more than others
b) Those that contribute more will eventually tire of giving so much only to recieve the same as everyone else
c) Those that are responsible for the "equal" distribution of goods and services are inherently in a superior position and therefore are subject to corruption and greed.
Essentially, communism is not a "bad" philosophy so much as impractical. The Soviet Union is a good example. While the proletariat are given the state-rationed apportionment, party officials were easily corrupted, and enjoyed a higher state of living than the rest of society. As opposed to finincial wealth , which Marx believed was the root of inequity, political power became the currency of competition.
The ultimate problem with communism is that humans ultimately are animals, and animals are biologically competitive creatures. They compete through various means, ultimately for reproductive fitness(i.e.sex) and security. Marx naively believed that the quest for financial wealth was the root of inequity. Yet money is just a proxy for reproductive fitness. If you eliminate money, then humanity will find some other proxy to measure their "strength" and reproductive attractiveness ( i.e. political power). So while communism isn't "bad", it is unrealistic and ultimately impractical.
The "bad" connotation is attached mainly via the propaganda of the Cold War. When the Communist Block collapsed in financial ruin, the impracticality of the system was exposed, and the allure of communismhas been all but lost. Even "communist" China is not entirely communist, either ( consider the huge disparity between the urban areas and the rural villages that contain most of China's population).
P.S. You gotta love the "Buddy Jesus"
Marion: You're not the man I knew ten years ago.
Indiana: It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage.
For the last time, there are
NO FEMALE SPACE MARINES!!!!!