Data retention - Europeans loss of online privacy - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Vindkall's Avatar
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    Data retention - Europeans loss of online privacy

    Tomorrow the EU parliament will vote about a new law that will allow the police to see all the phone calls you've made, all the sites you've visited and read your most personal of E-mails.
    Ok, on the paper, this looks great, stop the terrorists and world peace....
    All this to stop terrorists, but, is it worth it? Isn't it a step back to a world filled with government control, big brother and opinion registration? Because they're not talking about only suspected people, they will register everyone in the EU (447 million persons), suspect terrorist or not. To be honest, I think it's a bit freighting, if I say one thing wrong over msnm to a friend I could have a police officer knocking on my door an hour later (but then again, I've always suspected Microsoft to take a peek now and then so I encrypt my more sensitive chats). But, I should be allowed to have my freedom, I shouldn't have to encrypt my chats because they can be watching, I have freedom of speech after all, and how will they prove that they don't register my opinions, as a private person you will not have access to the logs, not even the ones about yourself.

    So, the government wants to know what I do online, who else benefits from this law? Well we do have the lobby organisations as RIAA, MPA, BSA and other organisations that's already peeking at what you do online. And as we all know, these are very trustworthy organisations that never do something as planting evidence (well at least they did in Sweden), using infiltrators and stalking the everyday citizen.
    And don't make me start about the companies they represent as SonyBMG, and their malware infected products.

    Also, there's a third thing, the cost for the ISPs, the amount of new equipment and technology they'll need is extreme, for example, Sweden’s largest ISP has to invest about 100 million euros to cover this cost, and they have 1.3 million customers in Sweden. Now, how do this affect you, well not all of the ISPs can afford this, and a lot of the ISPs will go out of business as they can't afford the cost and the EU wont pay for the upgrades.

    Now, my question is simple, data retention : Yes or No?

    Now, for more information about this that hasn't been infected by my thoughts about it can be found here on wikipedia or with the help from Google

    "As I walk through the valley of LO I fear no spammer, because I got the power to ban"



    Of Trui and Gay

    A Chaos Space Marines Diary

    Svenska Rackham Sidan

    troopseses!

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  3. #2
    The Dvl in Pale Moonlight danceman's Avatar
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    good bye integrity and hello bull****.

    Wouldnt suprise me if it goes through. I´m beginning to think EU is the means to create(if slowly) a new super-state with European countries.

    Brothers and sisters, pick up your guns... we got some cleaning up to do.

    cheers dancey
    ""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.

  4. #3
    The Pacifist Wargamer Quick's Avatar
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    This is all a direct result of the end of the Cold War.
    Back in the 80's, it was easy to know whom the enemy was: namely, whoever had the Russian accent.

    Nowadays, it's not so clear.

    People always need an enemy, people always need something to fear.
    So the politicos have told us to fear ourselves.

    Any one of us could be a *gasp* terrorist.

    A terrorist is someone who spreads fear. Every politician is a terrorist.

    So now, we lock ourselves down, and we can be content that without any freedoms, we are restricted from being terrorists.


    WHFB: Dwarfs || WH40k: Imperial Fists, Necrons || WM/H: Trollbloods || BFG: Necrons

  5. #4
    Son of LO Silver Wings's Avatar
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    Wahoo, my Europhobia has been incresed once more.

    And this might sound racist, but it aint little old ladies with poodles commiting terrorist acts. Cant they just search for sites written in Arabic/containing key words such as "Death to America".

    Or am I being unreasonable, of course the mighty Brussels Bureucrats might know whats best for us all.
    Every time you read this sig: a fairie dies!

  6. #5
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    It is nice? no.

    But realisitically they can only "go back" and trawl over a handful of people's data. The shear volume of data that flows from people will largely mean that the government won't be monitoring whether you're looking at right now, or even look up what you've done without good reason - it would be a waste of time.

    There's only so many porn links those boys can look at.

    They already have systems to monitor cars on roads and CCTV in towns and cities. They already had the power to watch you and even take your computer if they suspected something.

    The internet is like the sea: You aren't going to come up with much if you dip you net in any old place - You have to home in on specific places to get what you want.


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

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  7. #6
    Senior Member Vindkall's Avatar
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    Failure

    Well, today the EU parliament voted yes for this, it's fun to see the way this was passed make me think that the parliament is corrupt, after a lot of lobbying this was passed after only 3 months, usually it takes 3 years for something like this to pass, that our top politicians falls so easy for the request from companies and other branches with in the EU.
    but ohh well, guess I have to live with that all I do with my phone, on the internet is logged, but they will re-evaluate it within three years, hopefully there will be politicians that actually care about their citizens privacy ruling then.
    "As I walk through the valley of LO I fear no spammer, because I got the power to ban"



    Of Trui and Gay

    A Chaos Space Marines Diary

    Svenska Rackham Sidan

    troopseses!

  8. #7
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    The only real issue is access to the servers which hold the data. As long as they are secure from unauthorised online and physical access, the system should work as intended.

    Look at it like this - Let's say every person in europe, on average, sends the equivalent of two sheets of A4 text per day through e-mail, chatrooms, forums etc etc. The population of europe is 450 million - so the continent is generating nearly a billion pages of data per day.

    Even if you filter for words such as "war" or "jihad" (And I'd just like to say a big "hi!" to any CIA or MI6 guys reading this) and so on, that's a lot of useless information that security staff have got to trawl through.

    The real threats are already likely to be monitored - just because the EU is storing your girlfriend's recipe for pancakes, doesn't mean the security services are going to upgrade their breakfast menu a couple of days later.


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by amishcellphone
    <3 rork. He does all the arguing so I don't have to.

  9. #8
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rork
    There's only so many porn links those boys can look at.
    I dunno.. could be an appealing job to some people.

    Next time you meet a policeman with a wrist injury, you'll know why.

    Back to serious reality:

    The trouble is, the more filtering you do, the more people will innovate to counter it. If the system starts to experience success, the real 'terrorists' out there will start innovating. For every technological advance, there is a dumb solution. Your emails aren't going to be looked at, for example, if you simply change the suspect words into more innocent ones.

    Hence, your girlfriends pancake recipie really could be plans for a terrorist attack.

    I'm not saying you shouldn't try to innovate, only that you shouldn't expect innovations as superficial as this to work.

  10. #9
    Senior Member eatmydarkapostle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rork
    The only real issue is access to the servers which hold the data. As long as they are secure from unauthorised online and physical access, the system should work as intended.
    The real issue is not defined by what the government will see, but how far they will go after the passing of this bill. With the one billion pages of text per day, there is a very slim possibility that some government worker is going to read your conversations to your girlfriend. However, the passing of this bill represents a trade of Individual Privacy for the Safety of the Community.

    Actual danger of this bill itself as an intrusion of privacy? None.
    The real danger is that this bill will pave the way for more of the same kinds of laws to be passed.

    Question is: What's more important, privacy of individuals or national security?
    Last edited by eatmydarkapostle; December 15th, 2005 at 23:44.

  11. #10
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatmydarkapostle
    Question is: What's more important, privacy of individuals or national security?
    It's not about one or the other, though - the solution is typically grey. If someone with something to hide has their privacy invaded, which is some small way leads to the prevention of a major crime or information on a suspect, then it has done its job.

    You have to sacrifice some privacy sometimes to allow the police (and friends) to do their jobs. There has to be a balance between national security and privacy - it should not be about one or the other being supreme.

    And the random guy trawling through someone's e-mails does so, no doubt his access will be logged, and in turn monitored by someone else. And that random guy ends up losing his job (and maybe even getting convicted of something as a result).

    Companies already trade lists of names for selling goods and services to us. The Credit companies and banks have a wealth of information on where we've been and what we buy.

    Privacy is an illusion.

    EDIT: I just noticed this on BBC news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4536310.stm

    While this isn't europe, it paints a picture of what could be a government misusing its agencies with regard to its own citizens. If true, there is one good thing to come out of it - governments (both US and europe) are still accountable...and tend to suffer if they think they can get away with something clearly illegal (and in turn, comes out). It's still a matter of privacy vs national security - but when governments mess it up, they end up having to push back security in favour of privacy to some extent.

    It does not serve them well if they use their powers irresponsibly.
    Last edited by Rork; December 16th, 2005 at 19:44.


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by amishcellphone
    <3 rork. He does all the arguing so I don't have to.

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