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My sister commited suicide on he 30th of November, now this is enough to deal with but the thing that got me was apparantly suicides dont go to heaven because they take there own life because this offends god. So my question is this would a compassionate god who cares for his charges be so uncaring and cold as to disregard the circumstances and situations this thing we call life throws us into as to throw someone in obvious pain and despair into hell.
Sorry to sound so heavy but I cannot believe that a being who is so all knowing and omnipotent would be so petty as to take the soul of someone who suffered in life and carry on that suffering after they took there own life.
This is not asked to ease my mind but is asked to find out others opinions on how we think a caring god would treat those obviously in so much pain they would end there own lives.
This is what my faith and me believe in: Suicide. Just scroll down the top half of the page.
Hope you can have the time to read it. If there are some parts you don't get then I'd be happy to try and explain.
It is pretty much what I believe
I think I understand the premise of the text you pointed me towards, basically my sister will be judged on her actions not just her one action of suicide, my sister was a good women and suffered a lot throughout her life due to others actions though throughout all the degredations she endured she always believed in a god (something I cant do) and always saw the good in others even the ones who did her harm and I hope that her god wil see this and act accordingly.Originally Posted by Thee Forsaken One
Thank you for your reply
I have similar sentiments on that. I remember a friend summing it up a little crudely but in some ways accurate. "God is an irresponsible jerk that doesn't deserve the power he wields. When I get to the afterlife I'm going to kick him one in the nads to let him know." He uses orks by the way. :rolleyes:Originally Posted by rikimaru
In the movie Constantine, didn't the hero say that god was like a kid with an ant farm?
EDIT: can anyone see my sig pic? I can't and I want to know if it's just my compy.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
Firstly, I think I have to express my sympathy, welcome or otherwise. I guess it's something I can't understand myself, but I've been close to people who have lost others to suicide, so I know something about what it can do to your life.
I find the entire Christian faith incredibly painful at times.. People who believe say that they can't imagine the world being as cold as it must be for an atheist/agnostic. But I think the Christian world is far colder, and far more devoid of hope. I like to believe that my agnosticism is a brave confrontation of the unknown, but sometimes, I do wonder if I'm hiding in the unknown because the Christian world is just too cruel for me to face.
As I understand it, the Christian response is that you are fundamentally flawed and the only way to escape your own flaws is to accept Jesus Christ, who, through his own saccrifice, gave us the means to escape the fact that we're, ultimately, useless, horrible beings. It doesn't matter if you're the nicest guy on earth, you're still just a human being, and because you're a human being, it is impossible for you to achieve the perfection god requires without that aid.
Thus, suicide is a sin, but we're all guilty of sin already, and therefore, we need to accept Jesus christ as our savior, because, by doing that, we can purify ourselves of all sin. I believe the Christian response would be that someone who commits suicide but has accepted Jesus is as capable as any other sinner (i.e. person) of entering heaven. Being nice is not what is required to enter heaven, being perfect is.
As I said, I don't like it. I don't see the need or desire to live forever, and I don't see the relevance or importance of eternal bliss. If death really is the end, then I don't have anything to fear from it, because death will end my capacity to be afraid. That universe is as warm and comforting, in a way, as any massive judgement.
Jesus fella thats quite f****g profound and i dont mean that in anyway derogortary, I am agnostic I have no faith whatsoever but believe me its so hard to accept the loss of one so close to me, (it makes you doubt your beliefs, if you dont believe in heaven it means you wont meet your lossed ones), and the loss of one who saw the best in everyone she met as pointless to god, to the end of not being accepted into his kingdom.Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
Death to me is the end, and my sister lived enough in her 39 years to justify anyones inclusion into any heaven, but what annoys me is the fact that anyone who did not know my sister for who she was will just judge her for the final act of a short and painful life and that is just not right, would a benevolent god allow something like that, she left 3 sons who are a credit to her, no criminal records ect just 3 nice normal lads that should be enough to guarantee her a place in her heaven (and lets face it if she beleived that should be enough)
The courage to know that you may not see the ones you love again is a pain thats hard to bear but the pain of knowing the one you lost to suicide was the kindest most accepting loving, most easy going person you could ever hope to know but is denied the pleasure of ever lasting bliss simply because circumstances or the actions of others drove them to an action they would not have contemplated in ordinary circumstances just dos not add up would an all knowing god punish the victum of such actions so. I hope not.
Last edited by Rikimaru; December 28th, 2005 at 04:20.
Well... I'm not religious at all (though I'd like to be; it's just that none of the existing religions appeal to me, that's all)... so my response might not really have a lot of weight behind it.
I haven't read everything, but I'm going to simply try to answer your original question to the best of my knowledge, and I apologise to anyone that I offend;No.Originally Posted by rikimaru
But a compassionate god who cares for his/her/it's charges also would not rack the world with plague, other diseases, war, terrorists, nightmares, pollution, death, sorrow, pain...
See where I'm heading with that?
I don't believe in "God," persay, but I do believe in a "something" that's got a higher power than us. And I don't believe it is compassionate, nor that we are it's "charges".. at least, not to "It." Maybe to some lesser beings, who are powerless to stop what Nature itself places on the world.
I don't think it would throw anyone into heaven, nor into a hell, for suicide, or even any other crime. I think our past lives are left at the door, in a way, when we die, and everyone goes to the same place.
Sort of. Probably a bit more complicated than that, but that's a simplified version.. in a way.
Hope this helps, even though I doubt it.
First off I'd like to extend ny deepest synpathies to you and your family for the loss that you've endured.
Now that that's out of the way, I'm going to try to keep this specific because if I started on the subject of suicide in general I'd be here all night. I don't really subscribe to any one religion but I do beleive in god. I do not pretend to know anything about her or how she works,so wether or not suicides go to hell is beyond my knowing. The way I see it though,if god is in some roundabout way responsible for our creation,suicide would be the most severe affront to god imaginable. You're basicly taking this gift, life, that was given to you by god, then looking her right in the eye and saying "Yeah y'know what? This is crap. I don't want it so I'm gonna throw it away." It's just plain insulting.If somebody gives you a birthday present that you don't know how to use do you throw it away right in front of them? That's basicly what commiting suicide is,and if I personaly was god,I'd be a little bit offended.Even without thinking of the religious context commiting suicide is the single most selfish act you can commit.All the people who commit suicide are thinking about is how bad they feel and how sad they are.Did they ever once stop to think how thier death would affect others?What do they think gives them the right to take a child away from thier parents,or take a friend away from thier freinds?Everyone agrees that it's wrong to take another person's live,but doesn't anybody realise that killing yourself would mean taking away a very critical part of your loved one's lives? Anybody that could conciously do that to the people that care about them,I'm sorry to say,really deserves whatever punishment they recieve in the afterlife.
I totaly understand your sentiments but how do you comprehend somenones level of pain to the extent where the knowledege of the magnitude of pain that their suicide would cause to others is secondry to the pain that carrying on living would cause to the person contemplating the act, its a very simple dismission to say that the suicidal person was selfish but I believe exactly the opposite the act of suicide is a totaly unselfishish act its more about the act of removing the problem that is yourself from the world and resolving the responsibility of that person from anyone else, its saying I take from you the responsibility of my actions and taking them unto myself thus absolving you and god of all responsibility for my actions, thats what you fail to comprehend that the person who takes their own life does not understand all the consequences(sorry if i dont know how to spell that) of their act, do you think my sister did not know how it would effect her sons for christs sake but her pain was such that it meant more to her to be at peace, do you think her sons would deny her that peace, i am here in absolute pain at the loss of my beautiful sister but I cannot hate her for doing what she did because i understand her need for peace even at the expense of the pain of the people she left behind and when you can undrstand that mabe you will begin to comprehend the existence of a god.Originally Posted by Edicius
And for some people, this is highly justified, and from the few detail I have heard, Riki's sister had justification to do so. I remember hearing about an old lady who had a terminal illness. She was constantly in severe pain and yet our laws don't allow for euthanasia. So taking things into her own hands she jumped off the hospital roof.Originally Posted by Edicius
What kind of god goes around handing out "gifts" of terminal illness. "Here have some super happy fun Cancer inna box! Enjoy it or I shall smite thee in the afterlife!" Not one I want to hold in high esteem at any rate.
Of course it could be a "test" of faith. But if I believed in a god and then he/she gave me cancer, I'd be like "Why the hell did you do that! You expect me to love you more after you did this!! *unpronouceable spluttering at the percieved idiocy of the action* "And in the same context, people raging at a suicider are being selfish. They aren't considering how the person felt to feel the need to commit suicide. What gives them the right to say, "Waddya mean? You're fine! There isn't any problem at all so quit thinking about suicide."Even without thinking of the religious context commiting suicide is the single most selfish act you can commit.All the people who commit suicide are thinking about is how bad they feel and how sad they are.Did they ever once stop to think how thier death would affect others?What do they think gives them the right to take a child away from thier parents,or take a friend away from thier freinds?Everyone agrees that it's wrong to take another person's live,but doesn't anybody realise that killing yourself would mean taking away a very critical part of your loved one's lives? Anybody that could conciously do that to the people that care about them,I'm sorry to say,really deserves whatever punishment they recieve in the afterlife.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..