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just a quick question that should start a nice discussion,
Do you follow the ten commandments, if your religon uses the bible and the ten commandments, do you actively follow them as a life choice?. If so why.
Heres a little connundrum regarding the commandments.
One commandment states 'you shall not kill'.
Another states 'respect your parents'
So what happens if your father asks you to kill someone, do you?
A: Kill the person your father asked you to and break the commandment ;You shall not kill'
B: Not kill the person and disobey your father, thus disrespecting him..
Hmmm do the commandments have a moralistic hierarchy, can you choose to ignore one to obey another or are they strict in their instruction, can you apply your own moral code to the commandments or do you subscribe to the opinion that gods word is the ultimate moral authority and follow his commandements unquestioningly, what would you apply to the situation above, there are other combinations of cammandments that are problematical.
Yes the commandments if you are Christain (as oposed to a Jew) do have a hierarchy (I am not sure if the commandments have a hierarchy for the Jewish faith) the one Jesus gave "Love your neighbour as yourself". Hence you couldn't kill a person just on the whim of your father.
In any case it also says in the bible Parents do not frustrate your Children so the commandemnts are not absolutly binding no matter what you can break them if you have a VERY good reason to (i.e in the example you gave you would I suppose be breaking the honour your mother and father commandment).
Incidentally yes I try and follow the commandments I think they are a good moral yardstick (if every one followed them things wouldn't exactly be that bad would they?)
Rikimaru, I think you've got to define the difference between disrespecting your parents and not doing their bidding to the extent of killing someone.
"disrespecting" ones parents in my book is harm them physically or mentally - I respect plenty of people, but I wouldn't murder anyone for their sake. That doesn't mean I'm disrespecting them.
Considering that within the legal framework of nearly every country on this planet the last 6 of the ten commandments carry punitive strictures if broken, then I would have to say that yes, I follow the ten commandments pretty well.
I follow the first four, in addition to the last six, because I believe in God.
As far as I interpret it, the commandment is refering to 'respect' in the terms and context of the time frame they were written in, which means to me a much higher level of respect both moraly, mentaly, emotionaly, phsically but also in the respect of actually obeying your parents wishes, the parental figure had a much higher respect level attributed to it than today and the word and opinion of the father figure especially commanded much more respect and power over the children in a family than nowadays.Originally Posted by Robizzle
Even now in some countries, the word or decision of a parental figure holds great power, especially in relation to matters of marriage, religion and relationships decided by parental figures.
Recently in England an asian boy was killed by three sons on the strict order of the father of the girl he was seeing, who dissaproved of his daughters relationship with the boy (religous differences).
Now these children obviously thought the fathers opinion/order and their respect for him meant more than breaking the instruction/commandment to kill,. this is one of the reasons why I ask is there a hierarchy within religious commandment structures (not just the christian faith and the 10 commandemnts) and how do you assign a moral framework to these commandments?
Do you go by the implied moral structure defined by the commandments themselves or do you apply your own and societies morality to them. If the commandments or other religous instructions are open to modification or interpretation by todays standards of behaviour/moralistic attitudes do they actually have any value as instructions or even as orders or are they more of a guideline.
I am intersted to know how they are percieved by todays religous believers, as I am totaly athiest and have when I read the commandments they strike me as over simplified and to broad also they appear open to much interpretation and only dont really have much value in todays much more moraly complicated and political world maybe only in the broadest of contexts, though shalt not kill for instance, well plenty of religions kill in gods name and always have done, how is that justified?
Last edited by Rikimaru; April 27th, 2006 at 13:37.
Of course they were over simplified. You have to look in the context that they were given. At the time the Isralites were all over the place worshipping loads of different gods (some which condoned human sacrafice etc) murdering theiving selling each other out etc , now assuming you are taking the Bible at (to an extent) face value then the point of the Ten Commandments was for God to take it all back to basics and give his people a simple set of rules that would set them straight. In any case the Ten commandments (if you are Christain) were just a precursor to Jesus expanding on these laws (hence Old and New testament which could also read Old and New law).
The rest of the Bible both old and new testament expands on these rules. In a gaming example remember when you first played Wh40K or war hammer it has the starting rules these are very simple then it says you know all the basic rules you are now ready to play using the advanced rules well its the same kind of thing.
I follow three Commandments. I don't care what anyone else follows, so long as they at least follow the three that I do.
The first one I follow -
"Thou shalt always be honest and faithful to the provider of thy nookie."
Second one -
"Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisible man than you."
Third one -
"Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself."
With those three, the others that people follow matter to me not.
(Astute Readers may be able to place where I pulled these three Commandments from, but even though it may have been intended to be a joke, I believe there is real potential in them and they're a significant improvement over the old Ten.)
Some of you may percieve this post as being sarcastic, but it's not meant to be. I honestly do follow those three Commandments. Not because they're meant to be funny or anything, but because I feel it's the decent thing to do. I don't believe in God, or in any higher powers beyond life and death, but only because that is how I was raised - to respect people and treat them as equals.
I think some of the Ten Commandments are ok, but I live my life by this:
The High Commandment: Love And Peace
That pretty much sums up my life goals, values, belifes. Its the way I am, and hopefully how other people will become - tolerant towards each other and no more killing each other etc.
Caluin's Commandents are pretty neat too (I would include them under "Love And Peace").
Last edited by Lord Yossanrion; April 29th, 2006 at 02:21.
Seems a good way of living to me dude, but my point with this thread was to see if the quite frankly outdated and simplistic ideals put forward by the ten commandments still apply, and all the other stuff in the bible, in regards to such things as homosexuality and suicide (suicide being very close to my heart after losing a sister to it), it just seems to me that all the things the bible stands for just cannot be applied to todays infinately more complicated and convoluted moral framework, I know that thoughout history morals have been the most inconsistent and vague of notions but in todays modern world that seems to have been taken to new extremes, who is right the man who plants the bombs for Hezbollah or the man who hunts him down and kills him to prevent it, Who is right the priest who denounces homosexuality or abortion or the priest who fights for the rights of these two groups. Just what relevence does though shalt not kill have in a world where every day thousands are killed in the name of GOD, how does someone who kils in the name of god reconcile os actions against that commandment and if a father says kill the americans in the name of Allah(another name for god) how does he reconcile his son to disobaying a prime rule of god 'tho shalt not kill' I know the religions differ but the underlying idea/principle is the same in the bible or the Koran killing is wrongOriginally Posted by Lord Yossanrion
Oh Sorry Man.
My points on that subject:
I think while the Ten Commandments have some nice and relativley good points. However, some the more specific things: Homosexaulity, and Suicide are looked down upon for the following reasons. The Bible was a kind of survival guide as well as a spiritual guide, and so if you want your people (and religion) to survive, you won't get that happening by killing yourselves, or by not reproducing. Nor by converting to other gods, killing each other, inbreeding, etc. I've always thought that is an intresting point of view.
The Bible is a few thousand years old, and naturally we cannot instantly apply its principlas to the modern day. It just doesn't work. While the fundamental ideas (not killing etc.) are good, you can't say the same things apply now as then, becasue it is now and not then.