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  1. #1
    Illustrator Extraordinair Adrian MalSeraph's Avatar
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    Political Correctness: Why?

    Woo! First Enhanced thread!

    Okay, to business.

    As the "Holiday" season is upon us, I find that political correctness is at its peak as it is every year.

    Businesses and Advertisers and everything else insists upon calling it the Holiday season, instead of Christmas season, as they're afraid they'll offend someone who isn't christian and doesn't celebrate Christmas. This leads me to make three points.

    1) Everyone insists on saying Holiday and the like, but politicians feel its alright to say 'God' in large groups when a good chunk of the world doesn't follow the Christian Religion. Should we just say "universal deity in the sky" so that we don't offend the Muslims, or the Hindus, or the Buddhists? If people are offended by simple things like this, they aren't being tolerant of other peoples religion, which is one of the basic principles in most religions, is it not?

    2) Despite calling it the Holiday season, the main focus of it is Christmas. Nobody makes special sales for the eight Days of Hanukkah, or a special Kwannza 50% off. Does anybody see a Ramadan sale? I certainly don't. Also, Santa Claus is everywhere, the commercial symbol of Christmas. So, basically, businesses and politicians are big hypocrites at the moment. To be truly politcally correct, please include Hanukkah Harry. It even went so far as to call the Christmas Tree in New York City, a "Holiday Tree." Come on.

    3) Political Correctness also leads to misunderstandings and confusion. Trying to be politically correct only leads to convoluted speech and singling out. You can't say black, but African-American is okay. White isn't allowed either, but rather Caucasian. Why do we feel the need to cover up facts with fancy words to make people feel better? Why not tell it like it is? Why be vague and careful, rather than clear, concise and to the point?

    Those are my thoughts. Anybody want to include their insights and thoughts?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member artificer's Avatar
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    This topic in particular really cheeses me off.

    Political correctness, in and of itself, is fine. Nobody wants to be called a n***er, chink, gook, or cracker. BUT things always get taken to the point of ridiculousness. Why the hell should I call someone Caucasian (just plain stupid... I'm WHITE), or African-American? What if their family came from Australia? What do I call black people who aren't American? They might NOT be from Africa either... What do I call black Brits? Ango-Africans? It all gets silly to the point of idiocy.

    Same with the whole Christmas thing. Worried about offending holiday shoppers who aren't Christian? Well I'm sure as hell not Christian, but if someone wishes me a merry Christmas, I take it in the spirit it was meant, I don't view it as someone oppressing me with their god-bothering.

    People need to lighten the f**k up.
    Last edited by artificer; December 14th, 2006 at 17:23.
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  4. #3
    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    Let me put it simply..

    If a black person walks into the room and I say 'oh look, it's a negro', or 'hey guys, check out that coon,' it would be telling it like it is, but it wouldn't be very pleasant for them would it. Same if you call a gay person 'fag' or 'dyke,' or refer to a disabled person as 'crippled.'

    It's my experience that a lot of people who whine about political correctness have never experienced discrimination. It's not nice to know that someone hates you or regards you as so lowly that they've turned part of what you are into an insult. 'Black' is a borderline term.. it is not insulting yet, but may become so in future as a negative stereotype and value judgement becomes attached to it..

    I'm not sure about political correctness, but I've been subject to hatred, and it hurts.. you can see how people would want to protect each other from it.

    And calling it the holiday season is perfectly accurate. It's the season where you have a short holiday and give each other presents.. For many people, it has abseloutely nothing to do with some prophet dude from 2000 years ago. This isn't political correctness, it's actually a better term for it than Christmas.

    Why the hell should I call someone Caucasian (just plain stupid... I'm WHITE)
    Because that's what they are.. Caucasian is an actual term with meaning (though admittedly its not very specific.. middle easterners and indians are also caucasian) while white.. hm.. well.. unless you do burlesque or are really into goth I sincerely doubt your skin is ever white. Just like no african is ever actually black.
    Last edited by The_Giant_Mantis; December 14th, 2006 at 17:30.

  5. #4
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    Like anything, some aspects of it started with good enough intentions. Calling black people "nigger" or "negro" were usually used in an insulting context, or to impose a sense of inferiority on them.

    Problem is, these words (amongst others to do with other "Minority groups") eventually did become unacceptable - a problem because the "pc" crowd now had momentum, but also because they had nothing left to go after. It went from removing prejudice to attempting to remove perceived prejudice.

    And the weirdest thing is you often find spokesmen (I should say "spokesperson" ... that's not sexist...) of minorities saying "We're not offended by Christmas" - and I believe them. Increasingly some people today fear what might happen or who might be offended.

    The great irony is that as the world becomes that bit more tolerant and that bit safer, people are increasingly afraid of someone or something. In many ways we've swapped our intolerance of minorities to intolerance of asylum seekers. For some reason people need someone or something to fear...


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  6. #5
    Illustrator Extraordinair Adrian MalSeraph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis View Post
    Let me put it simply..

    If a black person walks into the room and I say 'oh look, it's a negro', or 'hey guys, check out that coon,' it would be telling it like it is, but it wouldn't be very pleasant for them would it. Same if you call a gay person 'fag' or 'dyke,' or refer to a disabled person as 'crippled.'

    It's my experience that a lot of people who whine about political correctness have never experienced discrimination. It's not nice to know that someone hates you or regards you as so lowly that they've turned part of what you are into an insult.

    I'm not sure about political correctness, but I've been subject to that kind of hatred, and it hurts.. you can see how people would want to protect each other from it.

    And calling it the holiday season is perfectly accurate. It's the season where you have a short holiday and give each other presents.. For many people, it has abseloutely nothing to do with some prophet dude from 2000 years ago. This isn't political correctness, it's actually a better term for it than Christmas.
    I am in no way advocating the use of derogatory terms, I'm merely stating why do we feel obligated to avoid the fact of things. I find that the level that Political Correctness has reached today is simply ridiculous.

    In some cases, it can mean the loss of identity. Would you rather be called a Businessman, or a Business person? You've worked so hard to gain an identity as a female in the business world, but quickly lose that identity as a 'business person'. Alot of the blanket terms used today just make things too vague, when things would be better as clear and concise.


    Regarding the Holiday Season: Okay, I see what your saying. But, there are no less than 3 or 4 Holidays in the "Holiday Season." And if things continue the same way, it could include Thanksgiving in the US. I'd rather see people refer to the specific holiday they're talking about.

    Another thing: Wouldn't you want recognition for the specific holiday you represent. While this isn't commercially viable, I'm sure that Christians would rather hear Christmas than Holiday. Its the birth of Christ, their savior. Hanukkah, the celebration of the rededication of the Jewish temple. Recognition is nice, in alot of peoples eyes.

    I may not have been subject to discrimination, but I've seen plenty enough of it. When I lived in the city, I had several black neighbors, and in school, they were constantly picked on and singled out. It only got worse when I got to the country, where there are few blacks. Its heart wrenching, and I feel for them.

  7. #6
    Game Over boys macewind's Avatar
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    Political correctness is a waste of time! And its going daft. Gingerbread People? People hole? There gingerbread men and manholes!
    Ive got a black friend, he calls other black guys n*gger. He lets me call him a n*gger. The word itself has integrated itself into modern sociaty and is no longer a racist term in itself, its the way you use the word that makes it bad! But ive seen plenty of white busy bodys gasp and look at me in disgust when ive called him it! PC is outta control and I for one will never adhere to it.
    Im polite enough to know that offensive terms are bad and dont need to be told! But honestly being told i cant say MANhole? F*ck off!

    *having finished his rant, Mace goes off and eats his gingerbread man*

  8. #7
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by macewind View Post
    Im polite enough to know that offensive terms are bad and dont need to be told! But honestly being told i cant say MANhole? F*ck off!
    I had a geography teacher who had that attitude to manholes. And I suspect there aren't enough female sewerage workers for it to matter (And can you imagine the uproar if there were womanholes?).

    But part of the problem stems from the media - Most of the world isn't pc, and will call a spade a spade. When some random pc happening occurs, the tabloids descend on it in an utter frenzy. Many people just accept what is presented, even if after a 2nd reading (which most people don't give it) the pc event isn't as bad as it sounds.

    But can we really complain that "Christmas" is being removed from December? How many of us are "proper" christians? We might enter into the spirit of Christmas, but there will be a lot of people who avoid the religion like the plague for the rest of the year (except for chocolate at easter ).


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  9. #8
    Senior Member Carot's Avatar
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    My Grandfather is racist. In ways that make me cringe.

    Discussions with him can get.......interesting. And worst of all, he won't ever change.

    Or maybe it's better to say he CAN'T change. He's illeterate as well. It's a very strange thing to observe.

    People say, "I'm not racist, your not racist, where is the racism? Why do we need these PC terms?". Because of people like him.

    It's there, especially in the under-educated (under, not un, for a reason). Why do you think half the African continent is trying to kill each other. But, in the educated, those who were once subject to it, remind those who once did it. Maybe out of fear of it returning, I don't know.

    But in people like my Grandfather, it doesn't go away. And there's no reason for it either.

    He's also sexist, anti-semetic, disrespectful to the elderly...... It's a laundry list of the worlds' issues, rolled into 1 old man (85).

    I think Politically-correct is a misnomer, it's used to encompass a large range of issues. People hide their fears behind it's terms. My Grandfather is polite to everyone....up front, you could call him a PC person. PC terms exist to keep people like him from being killed by an angry mob.

    Generations like ours have little concept of issues like that, our education is better, our society more diverse. We blame concepts now, not cultures, for problems. Politically correct statements exist to prevent those problems, it's better to insult everyone, rather than someone.

    And, it's not a manhole....it's a sewer lid.

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  10. #9
    Sadomachiatto Karmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis View Post
    It's my experience that a lot of people who whine about political correctness have never experienced discrimination..
    I can't agree more. Many of my white friends studying Japanese never really appreciated things of this nature - until they went to JApan and lo and behold, they were ranting and raving at peoples' attitudes towards foreigner.

    Go like Atticus and take a walk in someone else's shoes - it isn't pleasant. And when you're forced to defend your own life simply because you're a different colour or religion.. well. i hope no one else has to experience that.

    ON THE FLIP SIDE.

    Stuff like gingerbreadman, man hole, chairman, being somehow unacceptable is somewhat of a mystery to me.
    Calling a white guy a 'go-re' or 'spick' can lead to a lot of pain and hurt for the poor guy.

    I honestly can't see how I could hurt or damage someone by referring to humanoid baked confectionary as a 'man'.

    So a balance is necessary as with all things. Notably 40K army lists.

    As for Christmas.. how do you thing all those poor pagans feel? Their festival the saturnalia has been hijacked and regime changed in a massive piece of social terrorism. Bring back Yule, bring back the Saturnalia.

    Let Christmas be in February, when it's supposed to be.

    ... ok I admit, I just want more public holidays. :wacko:
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  11. #10
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    My opinion on Political Correctness is that it is largely useless and seems to exist only so that better-off people with too much time on their hands can feel righteously offended on the behalf of so-called victims of perceived discrimination – I’m not saying that I support discrimination of any kind, but as I see it Political Correctness is not anti-discriminatory, it’s just plain stupid, and can sometimes even be discriminatory in itself; why are some people Afro-Americans when they have lived all their life in the USA? They have no ties whatsoever to Africa, perhaps their ancestors didn’t even come from Africa originally, and yet they’re not entitled to be ‘full’ Americans due to their skin colour, as opposed to the Euro-Americans who are simply ‘Americans’.

    As for the aversion to calling Christmas by its proper name, I find that rather ridiculous as well – as if by changing the name of the event we can force it onto other religious groups who have no reason to celebrate this specific season, in a lame attempt to increase business profit from the consumer frenzy that grips most of the Western world this time of year. To be fair would be to make special holidays for other religious festivals at other times of the year, not lump them all together with Christianity by naming this a universal ‘Holiday season’. Whose holy days, exactly?

    And what about people who aren’t religious at all? Fortunately, I live in Denmark and so can celebrate ‘Yule’, the ancient heathen solstice feast – in Danish we still use the ancient Norse term rather than any references to Christianity, which I find a far less offensive alternative to the term 'Christmas' than any of the Political Correct suggestions. Traditionally, Yule wasn’t primarily a religious holiday, although admittedly the consummation of large quantities of meat and ale in itself was considered a sacrifice to the Norse gods; it’s a celebration of the solstice, marking the turning of the year and the coming spring, for the purpose of preventing winter depression and starvation – a very sensible notion in my opinion.

    As for politicians mentioning God in large groups, they shouldn’t at all. Religion has no business in a modern democracy based on secularism. I realise that some religious people are capable of distinguishing sharply between their own religious and secular opinions, and are careful not to force their personal beliefs upon other people, but these are unfortunately by far the least vocal of the lot – just looking at the Unites States, it becomes clear that the nation is no longer in fact a democracy, but rather a theocracy based on Christianity – and if that’s not discriminatory, then what is?

    Rather than attacking Christmas for being offensive to non-Christians, how about applying Political Correctness where it’ll make an actual difference, such as to ‘in God we trust’ and ‘one nation under God’ – then I might start seeing it as something else than an exercise mind-numbing stupidity. :rolleyes:

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