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i torrented the sopranos last night, but that got me thinking, should i feel guilty about his?
i may buy the dvd set, i may not.
I wouldn't want anyone to steal anything that's mine...
I thought this would be a good place to post this: should i feel bad about downloading movies and music?
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It depends on what your purpose is. I use streaming sites to watch Battlestar but thats because i dont have the channel. Generally there is so much mark up on the shelves that they sort of deserve it. If items were cheaper in the shops people would be them more readily.
Music is the big one. A giant pack of cd's costs less than a cheap album in some places. This just shows people the immense amount of markup. I know the artist wants his cut but selling an album for £15 is ridiculous when your average joe can make 100 copies for that.
One thing about the music copyrighting that really bugs me is sheet music. It is sooo expensive yet most decent tablature websites have been closed by lawyers for supposed copyright infringement. Now i understand if a band takes the song reproduces it says look what we did then you can sue but stopping someone wanting to play it in his house when the actual songbook doesnt exist just seems a little petty to me.
i dont think you should feel guilty, if you like it then you will buy it. I plan to do this when Battlestar is released on DVD over here. As far as business sense goes its probably better for them to let people see it first!
Anyway enough from me lol.
I view streaming as alright, it's just using another channel that you have access to. Downloading copyrighted material that you don't own is another matter, however. Although the laws can be stupid (as pointed out in the post above), they're still the laws and should be abided by. Downloading stuff that is your own I find fine (I'm currently torrenting a CD-ROM I've lent to a friend and need), but stuff that you download to keep and don't pay for is basically shoplifting.
I wouldn't feel guilty. Guilt is just the recongition that you've done something bad, but of course, bad relative to what? There's a pretty good argument, well outlined above, that forcing people to pay large ammounts of money for something as reproducable as data is 'bad.' How much would it cost you to make copies of that series? It can be reproduced in a matter of minutes..
However, a better idea would be to consider the consequences. The idea that you're stealing from faceless corporations or, at worst, slick haired, overpaid producers and spoiled artists is flawed. Behind every faceless corporation is a group of very real human beings, many of them not paid obscene ammounts of money, whose livelihoods are entangled with the fate of their company through employment or stock ownership. In an immediate sense, they would suffer.
But hey, society has to change, and change is built on dissent. Media producers are going to suffer regardless because they've failed to consider the advance of technology. By downloading their product, you are undoubtably stealing from people (and I doubt it will be the incredibly rich executives or major shareholders who suffer from that) but you're also forcing change and development which needs to happen anyway.
The decision is yours. You more than have the right to download whatever you want, after all, you have the power to do so.. Provided you're not caught doing it, which is impossibly unlikely, noone is going to stop you or make you feel bad about it. Morality is something you have to create for yourself, ability is concrete.
Many call piracy theft, and they have good reason to.
But, I strongly feel that this works both ways. If I went out and honestly spent, say £15 on a DVD for a film like 'Blood and Chocolate', then I am a victim of theft by the film company.
'Blood and Chocolate' is hardly a film, it's a farce. You'd spend your time better by plucking out and categorising your eyebrow hair.
I don't think either is particularly fair.
So.. why am I allowed to try on a jacket or shirt before I buy it? But not a film or game or music?
So for this reason, I download things with a clear conscious and if I like it, then I'll delete it and but the original.
Of course, torrenting is sometimes the only way to get certain films and series too.
Games have demos, most of the time. Usually it's just a level or two, but it's enough to let you decide whether you like the game or not.
Movies have previews. I'll be the first to admit that a preview can often times be very misleading to the true intent of a movie, but you have reviewers and critics as well that can help you 'test drive' a movie before you buy.
And of course there's always rentals.
Music is pretty easy. Radio stations often times take requests, and just ask for a sample track from an album you're considering. Or go to a music store. Usually they have devices that scan the barcode and allow you to listen to the tracks.
I'm not disagreeing or agreeing, per-say - just playing a bit of devil's advocate.
I download stuff from time to time and I do feel a bit guilty.
I would like to pay for most of it (somethings though are just so below what they made mebelieveit would be, I think I should be payed to even view them...timetheftit is!) but the problem is how to pay what I think it's worth.
I'd like to see a good way to pay a small fee for the things I like, some more for what i really like and really much for the stuff I love.
I would do it and I think I would not be the only one. Or just add a text somewhere about what companies payed for thecommercialsand I promise I'll buy some of their stuff in the supermarket next time I go shopping.
Sorry for the disect style reply, but they're three different areas, so warrant three different replies:Agreed. I have a personal interest in the games industry, so i'll now no longer pirate games on principle.Games have demos, most of the time. Usually it's just a level or two, but it's enough to let you decide whether you like the game or not.
The only reason i did in the past was to get Japanese versions of beat'em'ups which ran at the proper speed.
Now, I simply import them.. like the latest Fist of the North Star game *drools*Like a wide eyed backpack wearing fresher/freshman, I swallowed up the reviewer's opinions about The Titanic and went to see it. I felt betrayed and dirty.Movies have previews. I'll be the first to admit that a preview can often times be very misleading to the true intent of a movie, but you have reviewers and critics as well that can help you 'test drive' a movie before you buy.
As you wisely point out, trailers accomplish nothing but showing every punch, every explosion, the bit just before the ending, and the part were the leading lady is just about to get her bits out.
Also, it's almost impossible to watch the trailers for things like Predator unless you actually buy the DVD by which time it's too late. (but youtube but youtube.. yes I KNOW about youtube.. but I only use youtube to watch that OVER NINETHOUSAAAND clip which Kos-Mos posted anyway).Very true. Not really viable in my part of the world.. but certainly when I was in Japan me and my mates rented a phenomenal amount of films. Aah. Tsutaya, what a shop.And of course there's always rentals
If i could viably rent all the films that i like to see then I would. But, it's almost impossible to rent anything other than the latest movies. Which is a pain when i'm more into films.I'm just being ackward here.. but it's unlikely that I'll get X-Japan's Weekend played on a radio station in Sheffield. As good for everyone as it would be - it's impossible.Music is pretty easy. Radio stations often times take requests, and just ask for a sample track from an album you're considering. Or go to a music store. Usually they have devices that scan the barcode and allow you to listen to the tracks.
So.. i download, and if I like enough of it, I'll buy it without hesitation. It's always good to know exactly what the hell they're singing anyway :pNice to have a discussionI'm not disagreeing or agreeing, per-say - just playing a bit of devil's advocate.
I am a pirate.....or (probably) more accurately, a hobby-pirate meaning that I haven't made a career out of it, and I don't do the duplicating/sharing, I only leech.
I have restricted myself to non-movie pirateship though, I'd rather own a bad dvd than risk a $250,000 fine for having a copy of a good movie. (I haven't copied a game in ages, I don't play them that much anymore.)
When it comes down to it, here in Australia it can cost $30 for a new CD with, if you're lucky, 3 good songs on it. That's the same price as a new release, box-office smash DVD, it just doesn't make sense.
The Recording Industry has essentially priced themselves out of the market by charging insane prices just to maintain their own wallets. I suspect it would be less of an issue for consumers if the artists actually got more than a few cents per sale, because obviously the artist is being robbed by the record company first and worst.
The only other major issue that Australia suffers, is the insane lack of availability. It is impossible to find anything from overseas other than the overhyped stupidity of "mainstream" US music. It's almost impossible to find actual albums of the weirder slice of audio or pretty much anything european (go Lordi! go Nightwish!); and so we are reduced to finding it online, in whatever form we can.
I have heard the "but if I download it, no-one else will be able to have it" excuse a few times....well, I've used it a few times anyway
Mysterious Member of the ANZAC Clan
See, there's that tangent.
I'll give my personal take on it, and my own code of ethics when it comes to downloading material.
When it comes to games, I'll never download anything but a demo, unless it's a ROM. In the case of ROMs (for those who don't know what a ROM is, Google Emulation) I only keep the file for 48 hours, unless I own the cartridge/CD, in which case I'll keep it permanently. However, this isn't illegal, since the law states you can keep a ROM for up to 48 hours to demo it, unless you own a physical copy.
Regular games I'll either play the demo, rent, or borrow from a friend. Or just flat out buy and get pissed off later on. Command and Conquer 3, anyone?
Movies and TV shows are a mixed bag. I'll download or stream a movie only once, and then decide whether I want to own it or not. I consider this to be no different than borrowing a boxed set from a friend and watching it before returning it. I will never keep a copy for myself, however, and will always remove the file after viewing. If I liked it enough, I'll go out and buy it. One would think that producers would appreciate this kind of behaviour, as many times I wouldn't have bothered buying a boxed set if I hadn't had the opportunity to view it beforehand. Firefly instantly springs to mind - had I not downloaded and watched the first three episodes, I would have never bought the boxed set, nor seen Serenity.
Where games is one extreme end of the spectrum and movies are the middle road, music falls under the more 'free data' end. I freely admit that I download songs. However, I do limit myself to three or less songs from a single album - any more than that, and I'll buy the album.
But I refuse to pay 15 bucks for two songs I liked only to find out that the rest of the album was pure crap. I'm looking at you, Modest Mouse. Yeah.... you know what I'm talking about. Pure. Crap.
I don't consider it piracy, as I still spend money on the things that I feel are worth my money. I consider it.... 'doing research on a product before hand.'