2250 League Play against Dwarfs - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    2250 League Play against Dwarfs

    HEROES
    • Tyrant equipped with heavy armor, Siegebreaker, the Wyrdstone Necklace, a Fistful of Laurels, and bearing the Mountaineater Bigname
    • Bruiser with heavy armor, Bullgut, and a great weapon
    • Bruiser with heavy armor and a great weapon
    • Bruiser with heavy armor and a great weapon

    CORE
    • Bulls x 3 with Bellower and extra hand weapons
    • Bulls x 3 with Bellower and extra hand weapons
    • Bulls x 3 with Bellower and extra hand weapons
    • Bulls x 3 with Bellower and extra hand weapons
    • Gnoblar Fighters x 20
    • Gnoblar Fighters x 20

    SPECIAL
    • Ironguts x 4 with Bellower, Gutlord, and the War Banner
    • Ironguts x 4 with Bellower, Gutlord, and a banner
    • Yhetees x 3

    RARE
    • Gorger
    • Gorger

    The idea is to not bother with magic at all while providing lots of small, far-charging targets. The Tyrant and three Bruisers add lots of punch, with one of the Bruisers able to negate ranks on his own, at least for a single turn. Ironguts will provide punch--hopefully, they won't be shot to shreds too early.

    Gorgers will hopefully arrive soon and attack war machines in the earlier rounds. Yhetees can hopefully avail themselves of cover and do so damage on the flanks.

    The gnoblars can hang back and claim table quarters. Unless he has a unit of miners or scouts, I should be able to claim at least one of the two quarters on my side of the table. People tend to forget gnoblars sitting back in the corners of the table.

    What do you think?

    This scenario also has a special rule that favors my army: search the Acropolis in the middle of the board for two things, a scroll and an artifact. The artifact is a boon from your god. You have become chosen.

    I'll jump out there with several units that can search the acropolis and then run interferece for whatever units he sends my way.

    Last edited by DavidWC09; December 16th, 2007 at 06:31.
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  3. #2
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    Fighting Dwarves

    My primary opponent is dwarves so I'll put things from that perspective.

    Firstly you can win without magic, but magic does make it easier....though against dwarves you HAVE to take 3 to have any hope of getting through the dispel dice.

    That said I have won amny times without magic. Here is a couple things that I think would help without using butchers.

    1. Add the spangle shard to someone. It's dwarves, they are coming with all kinds of high S artillary. Spangleshard shines here. AND it will let you move the Wyrdstone to someone else proving nice character protection.

    2. A Hunter with Mastodon Armor is an interesting distraction. He just keeps geting back up from those cannon balls. Plus the cats are fast cav so they allow for nice flank charges or killing miners or whatever. In someways I find them more useful than bruisers....obviously more expensive but there are some nice bennies with them.

    3. Kineater - you are going to be forced to take panic checks withall the fire. Against empire or dwarves is about the best place to ever use it.

    4. Gnoblar Trappers - Dwarves have greenskin hatred....they MUST purse after a charge. A unit of 9 can usually survive a charge with one or two left to pull a unit out of that nice tidy march formation. Bonus Points if you take a hunter or two and can then take an additional unit of trappers or two.

    On the list:

    Dwaves have WS 4 toughness 4 and most have armor of 3+ bulls just don't cut it. When bulls are in combat with them it's actually better to use the plain jane club because of the additional armor piercing rather than the extra attack. Extra hand weapons are near useless if you run the number averages the clubs edge out by about 1/2 a wound or some such.

    Which brings up the next point, Ironguts, you need more of them. They are what is going to do the damage not the bulls. I would flip flop personnally and go with 3-4 units of 3 IG's and 1 or 2 units of bulls. Also drop the gutlords, for the price you paid for those 2 attacks you could have had another gut and there by added 3 wounds and a third attack. None of the champs in the ogre army are worth their points...IMO.

    Also in regards of unit size...you have your guts in units of 4 and no look out gnoblars in them. IF you plan on using characters in these you should have look out gnoblars if you are going to have banners...Though with some of our magic items like spangleshard you actually WANT the character to take the hit.

    BUT plan from the beginning to have your units no more than 4 even with a character the reason is rallying. units of 3-4 will NEVER get below the 25% in unit size and can thereby rally single models. If you hit that 5 model threshold that bonus is lost and if the last member of that unit panics he can never be recovered.

    The last game I played against dwarves I went with this config for my characters and it was really successful even with the stupid anvil in play.

    Tyrant - Greatweapon, HA, Kin Eater, Jade Lion, Spangle Shard, Luck gnoblar
    Bruiser - Siegebreaker, HA, Wyrdstone,
    Hunter - 2 cats, Mastadon Armor
    Hunter - 2 cats, Longstrider, Sword of Might

    army was something like:

    1x3 bulls - bellower
    3x3 IG - 1 w bellower 2 w/ standard and Lookout
    2x9 trappers
    3 yhettee
    2x2 leadbelchers
    2 gorger

    That basiclly gave you 11 units upwards to 13 once the cats get released. forcing the dwarves to really pick and chose his targets. Alternatively if you really want to do the bulls....make them into a deathstar unit with the tyrant doing the damage. While the bulls won't hurt much they will force the autobreak and that is all that matters...though at that point you probably need a BSB to help with that.

    Anyway Good luck dwarves can be a pain....easy to get a draw but very difficult to get anything above a strong victory.

  4. #3
    übertyrant arisen devil's Avatar
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    Here are some of my comments on the list:

    I'd rather have 3 butchers than 3 bruisers, even against dwarfs. You might not think it, but gut magic is still effective against them. +1T and stubborn, or regeneration can make all the difference. Adding a bangstick to that is about 6-8 spells, and a bound spell each turn. Even if he has a runelord with anvil, he'll still have 1 less DD than you have PD, and most of our spells will be cast on a single dice, while it's safer for the opponent to dispel them with 2. If you want to use bruisers though, give it a shot, it might work for you. You might want to consider upgrading one of your bruisers to a BSB then if you get stuck in combat.

    I wouldn't bother with additional hand weapons on bulls vs dwarfs. The armor piercing is much more effective against them


    I would also drop the gutlords on the irongut units, XX pts for a single attack just isn't worth it - for the 2 gutlords, you get an extra bull or almost an irongut, which adds 3 wounds to your army.

    Try adding a unit of trappers, they're invaluable vs dwarfs since they're greenskins and scouts, and thus great for disturbing his battle line

    I would also change the tyrant's siegebreaker with a tenderiser: the tyrant's got enough WS to deal with dwarfs, and the tenderizer does a very good job at tenderising the small bearded ones. I mostly issue challenges against each dwarf unit, either sending his champ / character to the back, or adding a lot of CR to the combat.

    You might want to add in some extra ironguts, they're much more effective vs the dwarfs' high AS. You could replace a unit of bulls with a unit of ironguts, and maybe even split the 2 units of 4 ironguts into 3 units of 3 (adding an extra one with the points you've saved from additional hand weapons, gutlords,...), giving you hammer 4 units.

    I've never found the bellowers to be too useful on ironguts (in comparison to bulls, which i always give bellowers to help my bait & flee tactics), since, in my experience, ironguts either win by a lot, or not at all . The banners may help vs dwarfs' static CR, but I'd add in look-out gnoblars if you're using standards anyways ;Y

    also, why are your ironguts special?;?

    Hope this helped :drinking:

  5. #4
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    Great advice from both of you! Thanks a ton. I'll rework the list. I do have a hunter model, and it'd be interesting to try him out for once.

    I thought about kineater but went with mountaineater because of the cannonball bit. There are lookout gnoblars, I just failed to list them.

    Do you think leadbelchers are worth it? I'm tired of them misfiring.

    And ironguts are special because they bring me comforting dreams at night. Or something like that.
    Last edited by DavidWC09; December 16th, 2007 at 16:36.
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  6. #5
    übertyrant arisen devil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidVC04 View Post
    Do you think leadbelchers are worth it? I'm tired of them misfiring.
    I used to use them instead of bulls for baiting and screening, but I've recently switched to bulls again since my leadbelchers always explode , and the bulls provide me with an extra 3 wounds per unit for about the same cost, which help preserve US5+ to deny ranks in the flank. Leadbelchers are very useful against fast cavalry though, but there's none of those to worry about against dwarfs.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidVC04 View Post
    And ironguts are special because they bring me comforting dreams at night. Or something like that.
    I see

  7. #6
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    Leadies

    I'm still in the camp of having pairs of leadbelchers verses all oppenents. Reasoning is that no one cares about bulls which means pore people shooting at your iron gut units. Leadbelchers though put a certain uncertantiy factor into the equation and so I see dwarves and most other people shooting them up instead of the iron guts. I mean face it, you win or lose on your IG's. I'm a firm believe of doing anything I can to get as many of them as possible across the board.

    My lists lately have used 2 pairs of leadies and a unit of 4 bulls as my forward screening and baiting line. the bulls nearly all get across the board unscathed unless that is the only thing my opponent has to shoot at because they are so focused on killing the leadbelchers. For me all 3 units are equally expendable so it doesn't matter to me personnally if my leadbelchers even get a shot off, so long as that line of 9-12 iron guts gets across the field by turn 3.

    Really it's gravy if they actually do kill a model or two but I've learned to not rely on them for anything but being a hundred point bullet sponge.

    Interesting take on mountaineer by the way, but the spangle shard is a whole lot more reliable against artillary and characters.

    Lastly, I completely agree with Devil in that 3 butchers are IMO better than 3 bruisers any day of the week. BUT if you are going to take any less than 3 leave them at home verses dwarves and come big melee. That said with bangstick and skull mantle and I've actually thought about coupling a skullmantle with a Tyrant with the Scars for 6" terror tests at -1 to LD. Even with the dwarves leadership, the dice still fail from time to time, and even the bone cruncher does surprisingly well against them

    BUT 3 butchers are the standard, same with tenderizer tyrant combo....it's expected and I think the army has become overly cliched by that. So I am constantly searching for other combinations that keep my opponets off guard and the army interesting for me.

    That said...I'll have a 3 butcher force at Lone Wolf this year....as I think that is one of the only combinations that can be played on a competeive level.

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