Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I've become interested in fielding a DOW army that features a lot of OK ogres, and some light and heavy cavalry. and halfling hot-pots, for fluff (ogres and halfings together again) and armor destruction! I'm posting in the OK section because I'm hoping to gain insights into the Ogre component of the army from experienced ogre players. Has anyone experimented with mercenary cavalry (or have outright played the DOW army I'm going for) I'm looking for both army composition tips and tactical advice. Next opponent is horde O&G (nearly all infantry, 1 giant, 1 rock lobber, no mages, black orc general and black orc unit).
Right now I'm running:
8 bulls (1 unit, for outnumber and autobreak)
2 maneaters (gt wpns)
10 hvy cav+2 characters (general, BSB, equipt as knights)
5 hvy cav (hvy armor, no barding for movement 8 )
2*5 light cav (spear and shield)
2 mercenary mages (lvl2, PD, DS)
8 pistol duelists
2 hot pots.
General tactics are:
-Take/Contest table corner w/ duellists, who also help protect the hot-pots/hunt fast-cav.
-hot pots target war-machines, knights, armored infantry, in that order
-leadbelchers advance and shoot a hole in the lines, which bulls/ranked cav attack
-5*hvy-cav/maneaters flank. Maneaters can also be used as a roadblock (which can actually win!)
-fast cav go magehunting/marchblocking/charge-baiting.
I'm wondering if I should split the 8 ogres up into two units, or make 4 of them ironguts with war-banner (I'd probably kill a leadbelcher to do this). Also, you need ranks of 4 with ogres to get rank bonus, correct? You could not just field the 6 that come in the bulls box?
Thanks in advance for your help, and apologies if you feel this is inappropriate for the OK section, but I figure you guys will know your ogres better than the people in the DOW section.
I would use a mercenary general beforehand. Your ogres have a poor leadership value, wich will betray you all too often.
Slap him on a on a pegasus, and he'll be able to join them without breaking thier rank, and can charge out to eliminate a unit the ogres wouldn't reach. That 9 is very nice since he won't add up to 300 points like a tyrant.
I would't bother with a hot pot (less they be present for fluff, but then again a regiment of halflings would suit this better) the pots can be armed by arrows, and have only 2 wounds. A cannon or a unit of rhinox riders will certainly cause some serious damage to your opponents.
Hmm, the pegasus-General is something I hadn't considered. Probably a good idea. What would you kill to get him? The possibilities that occur to me are: Fast Cav, pistoleers, 1 leadbelcher + some command, 1 hot pot+some stuff. Of these the pistoleers are probably the least useful, especially with 7th edition looming, so maybe they'll bite the dust first.
I like the hot pots, cause they are both fluffy and effective, especially against those armor foes (knights, dwarves, and to a lesser degree, Chaos). If I'm desperate for points I might drop one, but they are SO cheap for their potential damage that I'm reluctant to do so. And if they are shooting the hot pots with arrows rather than something important, GREAT! They are as much a distraction as anything else, much like the fast cav. Also the hot pot is even cheaper than the unit of halflings, and can still fight even if left behind.
Questions: Where do you find the rules for Rhinox Riders? Also, where are the rules about charging out of units, as you suggested with the Pegasus? Can you give me a BRB or FAQ page reference?
Last edited by kooshlord; August 14th, 2006 at 15:35.
Rhinox are found in US White Dwarf 308, 309 for UK.
IRRC, The chargeing out of units should be under caracters joining\leaving units in the BRB
I would drop the leadbelchers altogether, in am ogre army they are the only means of shooting, but dogs of war have better ways of obtaining shooting.
With all those points you could easily get your flying general at 191 pts, and have a nifty 49 points to spend on upgrading your heavy cavalry to volan's venetor. S4 is just too good to pass.
I played this army against horde O&G last night and got utterly destroyed. Bad tactics and too much risk for the paymaster on my part. My big knights with characters charged some gobbos, pursued, failed to overrun into the orc unit behind them, and then failed their flee test against two units of orcs, who killed them all and the captain and paymaster, at which point most of my army panicked and fled. Stupid move on my part: I shouldn't have charged the gobbos, shouldn't have pursued, and just had bad luck on the flee check (rolled a 6 on 3D6).
However, I also realized that my big unit of Ogres will not be valid for a rank bonus under 7th edition, which means I need to completely revamp this army in order for it to be valid in september anyway. grrr. Heavy cav was also fielded 4 wide (3 ranks w/ 2 character), and they'll probably get dropped down to a single unit of 5 if I keep playing the army. But unless monsters can take ranks w/ 4 models, I don't think the central unit of the army (big outnumbering fear-causing ogres) are going to be legal anymore, which is irksome.
Things I'm considering now: replace bulls with Golgfag's Ogres, maybe throw in some Ironguts. Big unit of knights broken into several small units. This leaves me without anything with rank bonus, so maybe I need to include some dwarves, marauders, or some ranked infantry unit.
Any further thoughts are appreciated. Thanks for your help.
I don't know if the Golfag's ogres is a good idea. The trap of the dogs of war is fielding too many regiments of renown, who make you fully pay for the caracters they bring.
For the same price as golfag's basic unit size (4) you get 8 healthy ogres ! you loose the 6 S5 attacks and whooping leadership 8, but you gain 12 wounds, impact hits, and outnumbering.
Here's my line of thought for the next edition. 5 models wide for ogres will be suicide against 20 mm bases, you can only fit 4. But against 25 mm bases, all five get in corner to corner!
So I will start to run 3 man units of bulls for shock and sacrifice (the great maw demands you know), and 5-6 man units of ironguts for hammers.
I will simply form my units differently as I deploy them. 5 wide ranks against larger bases, and 4 wide and the rest in the back for extra strength impact hits.
Now as for your list, a cavalry based ogre army would be am amazing theme. Slap your paymaster on a warhorse, and off he is with a unit of crazed ironguts, the paymaster's bodyguard are jobbers anyway.
Again, the Venators would be your inner circle unit, they'll hit any unit like a truck. An interesting thought would be to model your cavalry with gut plates as shields, and the ogre simitar swords at the tip of the lance to give it a nice cathayan look. The duelists could be either gnoblar trappers, or cathayan peasents/ninjas if you fancy.
I can see it from here: the imperial Cathayan army, and it's ogre mercenary force as support.
Anyway, shape up a new list and see what happens.
Thanks a lot for your continued support on this project! I like the army a lot, but it is definately taking a while to adapt my mindset to a faster army than I'm used to (I usually play heavy infantry). Also thanks for helping reinspire the effort.
I especially like your use of ironguts, deployable for impact or front-rank fighting as necessary! I like messing around with reforming to face different foes, so that is a fun addition for me.
Do you think duellists will be worthwhile in 7th ed.? I've heard that skirmishers can be marchblocked, and also that pistols are S3. So they'd probably get bumped down to throwing daggers for fanatic-shooting, or just field them naked as a speedbump or something. Or outright replace them with more cavalry, or xbows or something.
Current modeling involves heavily armored ogres, all models are from the irongut pack: replace little shoulder shields with honking Chaos shields (they slaughtered a Chaos force both fluffwise and in reality). Four are fielded as bulls so the get an ironfist, and arm guards (vambraces?) modeled from chaos marauder shoulder pads, and gut-plates from the metal marauder shields. Four are modelled as ironguts (randomly foresightful of me...), the only modification is the Chaos shields as shoulder-pads. I'm not sure how good I think they look, but I really like the theme, so I stuck with it.
As for the Cathay theme, did you ever watch Hero? I'm putting obnoxious little feathers on the top of everyone's heads. Maneaters have them already (pirate and empire models), fast-cav are easily convertable. Hvy cav are battlemasters (old gw/citadel board game) knights, who already have feathers. They'll be replaced at some point, probably with empire knights (feathers again). When I replace them, I'll look into the Gut-plate shields. First I need to get appropriate models for everything in the army, especially the hot-pots. Which I love. They almost always take out their points cost, and against Brets or other low T armor nasties I think they'll be golden.
Pistols will retain S4 in shooting, but will simply count as an additional hand weapon in combat. A great boon for maneaters, wich makes taking a brace of handguns an even more obvious choice.
I still think the duelists will still be a valid option IMO, just take them with a grain of salt. You won't be marching too much if you want to use up those pistols.
As for your theme, I definitly push it and give them the back banners, cavalry and ogres alike, it would give you them a great dramatic and noble look. Blacks, greys and reds could do the trick as far as grim looking goes. Your peasent/trappers wouldn't need them, just blacks, greys and browns would give them a very humble look.
Empire horses look heavely barded, and thier riders armoured. I would toy with converting kislev cavalry, and ungol mounted archers for fast cavalry perhaps. Ungols have an asian look already, and the kislevite cavalry heads could be filed and resculpted and kit-bashed with war masks.
For the hot pot, I would use the Skragg cauldron, and have a small wretched augure bent over it skrying it's content.
It occurs to me that with smaller squads of ogres, and no ranked units of cavalry, I'm going to need another edge. I was wondering if a giant would be an asset here.
On the offense:
I'm thinking the giant and maneaters can spearhead attacks against whatever. If they kill it, overrun, and get stranded, that is fine, because they are both stubborn and will probably survive the first round of combat. If they get stuck in combat, fine, for the same reasons. Then my fleet of ogres, hvy and fast cav arrives and flanks the heck outta everything trying to swarm the maneaters/giants.
On the defense: the remaining hot pot and leadbelchers have fun shooting at things, while the fast cav delay everything and draw units out of position for opportunistic charges. Actually, I might as well be doing that on the offensive also...
On the other hand: Another couple of maneaters would be cheaper, have more wounds, have armor, have more reliable attacks, not be a large target, and not take a rare choice. But they would not cause terror, and would kill another unit of ogres (bulls, ironguts, leadbelchers).
Last edited by kooshlord; August 18th, 2006 at 17:07.
As far as I am concerned, I have list most faith in leadbelchers. If you compare them to, let's say, salamanders, here's the problems:
First, sure they take a special over a rare, but then again.
Salamanders don't kill themselves misfiring, ogres do.
Salamanders get a artillery nice number of hits, Leadbelchers need to hit, halving in most cases the number of hits.
You also have to be careful with them, once they move up, they cannot easely disengage like salamanders, who are skirmish.
Shooting every second turn is also very annoying.
Now, as for not having ranks and needing an ancor, it will depend on you. I will use maneaters on one flank, and just outmanouver the stiffer flank with 2-3 units, who could strike at more than one unit at a time. This will force your opponent to choose a facing, and then your crash in on the vulnerable unit. But I don't think you should have 2 units of them, they are pricy afterall.
Remember you will outreach most opponents by a mile, so sitback, and perfect your positioning. If it takes you all game to get in the right spot, then wait. If you have too much pressure on your units (eg shooting, magic you cannot handle), make sure you crash in through with 1-2 units on the same unit, and have a third secure your flank in case he would choose to flee and set you up.
For your special units you could go:
Bulls Ironguts, Ironguts & Maneaters
Bulls, Bulls, Ironguts, Maneaters
Depending on how much impact you want to have. 2 units of ironguts are a force to be reckoned with, and you will be able to play sneaky tricks with some fast cavalry units and your pegasus mounted lord.
Here's a sample I put together to give you an idea of what I meant:
Lords & Heroes
Mercenary General @ 176 pts
Pegasus, Heav armour, Enchanted Shield,
Sword Of Might
Paymaster @ 79 pts
Barded Warhorse, Heavy Armour,
Hireling Wizard @ 110 pts
2 Dispel Scrolls
5 Voland's Venators @ 195 pts
5 Heavy Cavalry @ 150 pts
Barding, Full Command
5 Heavy Cavalry @ 150 pts
Barding, Full Command
5 Light Cavalry @ 85 pts
5 Light Cavalry @ 85 pts
8 Duelists @ 72 pts
5 Ironguts @ 250 pts
5 Ironguts @ 250 pts
3 Bulls @ 115 pts
2 Maneaters @ 180 pts
Heavy Armour, Brace Of Pistols or Cathayan Longsword
Halfling Hot Pot @ 50 pts
Halfling Hot Pot @ 50 pts