OK: Tanked in Matrix Comp Systems - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    OK: Tanked in Matrix Comp Systems

    Well as some who have checked out the army list section may know I am planning on attending my first Indy GT at the end of the month. Players will be paired by army comp scores and they are using a Matrix. So my army really isn't that hard. It's pretty cookie cutter actually. So I sit down to score it and it's only 15 out of 25. I am checking out some of the other lists and they are much harder than mine and are scoring about 19.

    In short I think my list will be squared off against the Thoreks and Teclis lists while others with much harder lists will be playing your normal lists. Is this just the way it is for OK? Is the comp just OTT skewed towards one playig style? Am I being a baby and should I just stop whining?


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  3. #2
    Nerf Dave's avatar The Loki's Avatar
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    What it comes down to is that the OK cant fit into a normal comp list as our army is built so fundamently different then other lists. You cant help but fail certain points simply because you cant fuffil them do to the limitations of the army.


    If you would be so kind as to post the matrix (if its to much trouble dont worry about it) and mabe some of the fine OK players here can help you score a few more points.

    o and Teclis is beardy friggin cheese and they should lose comp points for using him -_-. At least you pay the points for Thorek (tho he is a monster to).


    I know I preach about Skragg alot but he is a big(ha i made a funny) contender in the GT.
    Looking for help with your Ogre kingdoms. Need help against them? have burning questions about life or why Dave's Avatar is so creepy. Feel free to stop by and ask OverTyrant Loki

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    Here is comp list. I think it's laughable that OK actually have a magic item that's -1 to the comp score!!! LOL Hellheart is a perfectly balanced army and can destroy your own army.


    1 less than 25% characters.
    2 less than 15% characters.
    3 No Lord.
    4 Less than 11 casting or 7 dispel.
    5 less than 8 casting or 5 dispel.
    6 less than 10% magic items.
    7 less than 5% magic items
    8 No unit which causes terror and may move more than 12" in a turn; or only one unit with terror which does not fly.
    9 Less than 3 units which shoot at S4 or less than 4 that shoot at S3
    10 Less than 5 units which shoot at S4 or less than 7 that shoot at S3
    11 Less than 3 chariots
    12 less than 3 artillery
    13 Less than 5 artillery
    14 less than 3 cavalry units (units with Sv4+ or higher count as half a unit.
    15 less than 2 fliers
    16 less than 3 fliers
    17 less than 4 skirmishing units which do not fly
    18 At least 50% core
    19 At least three units have a banner
    20 At least 3 core units at 2x minimum size
    21 Less than 4 units armed and equiped the same
    22 Less than 4 units which can strike at S5 or greater on the turn they charge excluding characters and champions.
    23 Less than 3 units smaller than 1.5x minimum size not counting units without option for more models.
    24 The army can generate at least 9 rank bonuses
    25 No dupicates of special or rare units.

    This assumes all things are done as units not choices.
    Take a deduction of -1 for each of the following items in your army.
    War Altar
    dragon
    For each DOW unit not in DOW army
    Second treeman or steam tank in army
    Staff of change
    greater demon
    Special Character
    Thorek Ironbrow (-2)
    Caradryan
    Morghur master of skulls
    Khazrak the one eye
    Karl Franz
    Teclis
    Gorbad
    hellheart
    banner of battle
    second generation slaan
    anvil of doom
    rune of stromni redbeard
    Banner of the lady of the lake
    Power stone after the first
    book of arkhan
    Dispel scroll or rune of spell breaking after the first
    Huanchi's blessed totem
    charm of the Jaguar warrior
    Hail of doom arrow
    Annoyance of Netlings
    Icon of Rakaph
    Banner of Nagarythe
    Virtue of duty
    Rhymer's harp
    Master rune of Challenge


    Qualifications:
    o In all cases if the selection calls for choices or types then a selections which is two for one (Like dwarven bolt throwers) count as one choice. If the question askes for units then each individual counts as a unit and they would count as two even if they are a two for one choice.
    o Cavalry are all models mounted on a cavalry base, which do not fly, except characters.
    o For casting dice a bound item power level 3 counts as one, power level 4-7 counts as 2 and power level 8+ counts as 3. One use items do not count at all except dispel scrolls which count as one dispel dice. Tomb Princes count as 1 dice, Tomb priests count as 2 dice, a tomb king counts as 3 and a High tomb priest counts as 4. Spell like effects which can be dispelled count as bound items. Items which can generate dice are considered counted at their average possible benefit as long as they are not one use only.
    o Tomb king chariots count as a only half a chariot each unless they have a character in them.
    o Shooting units do not count chariots, nor character with only one shot unless they qualify as artillery.
    o Artillery are all items which no not roll to hit, use the artillery die, are S6 or greater, or can affect multiple models in one turn.
    o Skirmishers are all models which skirmish including flying units and those that move like a character which are not monsters, but not characters.
    o Fliers are by unit as long as they are mounted on 20 or 25mm bases. Models on 40mm or cavalry bases count as half a model per base. Larger based fliers are done by model.
    o Characters count in all categories unless otherwise exempted or the category asks for units.

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    Nerf Dave's avatar The Loki's Avatar
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    yea mate its pretty stacked against OK. Seems like your organizer doesnt really understand the limitations of your army. Hellheart isnt that big of a deal as its not that great of an item (read: to situational). Looking at it with the exception of of no lord all the points you gain are because the OK list is incapable of breaking them.


    You should talk to the guy running it as its pretty damned unfair to put it bluntly. Its to be expected tho as OK comp is completely different then other armies.
    Last edited by The Loki; March 10th, 2008 at 19:44.
    Looking for help with your Ogre kingdoms. Need help against them? have burning questions about life or why Dave's Avatar is so creepy. Feel free to stop by and ask OverTyrant Loki

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    I have pleaded the case to the organizer of the tourney and while he agrees he said it's too late for this tourney. I agree too many other people with normal armies are putting armies together based on the comp as currently written. If I were one of those people and the rules were re-written I certainly wouldn't appreciate it. He has agreed to work on army specific comp of some sort for future tournaments. Can't ask for anything more than that.

    so my plan is to show up with a normal list, let the comp chips fall were they may, roll some dice and have a good time. I dont' get to play as much as I used to (wife, kids, new house, etc...) so playing five games in 2 days will just aobut double the amount of times I play a month! So I am really looking forward to it.

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    Nerf Dave's avatar The Loki's Avatar
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    good luck mate. And im happy to see that your org is willing to make arrangements(many wont).
    Looking for help with your Ogre kingdoms. Need help against them? have burning questions about life or why Dave's Avatar is so creepy. Feel free to stop by and ask OverTyrant Loki

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    Son of LO Phaeron Typhoon's Avatar
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    This is the reason that it some ways I love Indy GT's (less people that are there solely to win) and in some ways hate them. Almost every Indy GT I have been too has had the same problem with either a comp matrix at this far to over the top in trying to limit "powergamers" or doesn't have army specific variations, so armies like OK get the shaft.

    I stopped going to GT's for those very reasons. Either my poor ogre's were discriminated against, or there was no comp matrix and everyone hauled out their Thorek/WAlter/Teclis list.

    I also have never seen an Indy GT take the amount of powerdice into their comp scores before. I dunno, just seemed kind of strange to me.
    "I am the architect of fate!"

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    Nerf Dave's avatar The Loki's Avatar
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    I agree my little Bruiser. The powerdice/dispell thing is probally targeted at the new high elves but at the same time it completly tanks Tzeentch and Khorne lists. Kinda sounds like the guy running it made a list of things that irritate him and put it in the matrix
    Looking for help with your Ogre kingdoms. Need help against them? have burning questions about life or why Dave's Avatar is so creepy. Feel free to stop by and ask OverTyrant Loki

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    He's a Dwarf player and I do have to say that there is plenty on the list to hurt the stunties too.

    Couple things about this comp system really erk me though.

    1. Chariots don't count as shooting units UNLESS they count as artillery. His def artillery is anything that is str6 or more, use the art die, or can hit more than 1 model. Reason this one erks me so is that to the best of my knowledge there are NO chariots other than the SLuancha that have artillery shooting. So not only does it count as a chariot and a str5 off the charge unit it is also a shooting unit. So having 1 in the army contirubtes towards -3 comp. Pretty steep for a unit most players feel is something that is not really STRONG at any of these.

    2. Dispell Scrolls count as a dispell die AND are -1 past the first. Another one that accumulates dings off your comp score at an allarmin rate. This I totally don't unerstand as it's strictly defensive in nature. When I think power gaming I think of points denial and offense.

    3. The emphasis on being more than min unit size. Many armies, not just Ogres, will have problems with this especially if there core unit's size is 20 plus. Just taking the O&G book for example. It's alot easier to field 20 orcs than it is to field units of 40 goblins. It just becomes impraticle.

    What it comes down to is that there are alot of "Dingers" in this list that are redundant and add too quickly against certain armies/styles of play. One of them happens to be mine! Can you guys see anything else that I might want to bring up if there are discussions afterwords?

  11. #10
    Nerf Dave's avatar The Loki's Avatar
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    nothing to the extent that the others hurt. Tho the Three banner thing is a bit rough as it forces you to take 3 units of ironguts with standard bearers. that adds up to alot of points extremely fast. I wouldnt feel bad about having to take 3 Gut units so much as the three standards.

    22 Less than 4 units which can strike at S5 or greater on the turn they charge excluding characters and champions.


    that hurts as well seeing as it forces you to do one of the following.

    A. Take only Ironguts + one other unit (Scrappy a single gorger slavegiant or a single unit of maneaters.)

    B. Break rule 19 At least three units have a banner

    When it comes down to it i would break 19 hardcore as standard bearers are expensive.


    Now you may argue that 25 isnt fair as well seeing as we only have a single decent rare choice and the specials are a bit lacking as well save the scrappy. Thing is most armies have this problem so it shouldnt hurt to bad.


    When it comes down to it mate considering how the matrix is set up. Screw the Comp points and build a standard OK army as your either going to be
    A) Gimped army wise for following the comp list which makes building a decent list near impossible
    or
    Build the Standard list and hope to make it up stomping face (picking up the easy comp along the way).
    Looking for help with your Ogre kingdoms. Need help against them? have burning questions about life or why Dave's Avatar is so creepy. Feel free to stop by and ask OverTyrant Loki

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1104558

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