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It seems to me that, looking over people's army lists, they are always herded in the same direction via the comments and suggestions. It looks as though if we want to win(2k points) with Ogres we must play:
Tyrant w/ Tenderizer or Skragg
Butcher w/ dispel scrolls
Butcher w/ bangstick
Butcher w/ Skullmantle & Siegebreaker
1 unit of minimum Bulls
As many units of 3 Ironguts as you can fit
2 Gorgers(more if Skragg leads)
Some Leadbelchers(may also be considered "sprinkle flavor")
Sprinkle in the few remaining points with your own personal flavor.
The only difference in many lists is that last few points of "sprinkle flavor". I have to admit that I fall into the same trap with my current list as well. I have seen 1 or 2 people advocate the "Deathstar" but I have not seen much support for it. My question to the veteran Ogre Generals out there is: Can we make other competitive lists or is the army book really that restrictive if we don't want to get wiped off the table?
How about a challenge to all the Overtyrants out there? Come up with ways to use other units in our book in effective ways. Show the newbies(like me) out there that there is more than one way to build an Ogre army. Or maybe we have to admit that in order to keep the game close we need to use the same army as all of our Ogre brethren. Just my thoughts. Thanks for listening and hopefully we can come up with some effective variety together.
the thing is; the OK army book lacks options.
As seen time and again, the best way to be competitive with ogres at 2K is to run a tenderizing tyrant, 3 butchers (with 3 scrolls, bangstick, skullmantle and siegebreaker), 3-4 units of ironguts, 1-2 units of bulls with additional hand weapons and bellowers, 2 gorgers and then either 2 units of 3 yhetees or 1-2 units of leadbelchers with bellowers and ofcourse the "obligatory" unit of 9 gnoblar trappers.
A bruiser can be useful at 2K when using skragg, but then you've got to upgrade him to BSB.
The hunter just isn't worth his points in general.
Maneaters could be useful as they're a better hammer unit then ironguts, but ironguts are core and the rare slots are mostly filled with 2 gorgers.
Although there is another build... with rhinox riders, but that one isn't legal everywhere, and the character setup and core stay pretty much the same.
This all ofcourse is aimed at being competitive, and in fun games we get to use the scraplaunchers, slave giants, hunters,...
That's just my 2 cents
So you are of the opinion that there is just one competitive build. That is kind of disheartening as a new Ogre player. It would seem to indicate that the Army Book is not very well written and it looks like it is pretty recent so no update in the forseeable future. As for "fun games" I really don't consider getting pounded by turn 3 to be a fun game so if I have to sacrifice playability for variety I guess I will have to stick with the normal army list for now.
I appreciate the honest answers. It will let me decide how far I want to take this army. I currently have about 2500 pts. I will test out some options and see how things work out.
Other Tyrant's opinions greatly appreciated as well.
One thing I tried once was a unit of 9 maneaters with Hadguns. That worked out pretty nicely untill squared off against something with cannons. But then I am not sure if I played the army the right way and if i picked the best supporting chices. The nice thing about the army was the fact that it had the power to bring opponets to me or make them hide. alot different than the MSU style of crossing the board ASAP or bait and flee.One build I have used other than Breaker:I appreciate the honest answers. It will let me decide how far I want to take this army. I currently have about 2500 pts. I will test out some options and see how things work out.
Other Tyrant's opinions greatly appreciated as well.
and what ever else
Basically this guy gets Siege breaker just for taking the GW. It's just as good against cav with no challengable chars/champs as a tenderizer and it also gives you the flexibilty of using the BoH as an extra hand weapon at STR 6 against RnF.
Down side is need a Slave Giant. Not the end of the world and I have had some success with lucky attack rolls with him.
With my army, ive found that there is another competitive build. I personally take only one butcher, 2 bruisers, and a tyrant.
Currently expereimenting on taking a tyrant, bruiser, and 2 butchers. results aren't as good.
I take maneaters and a gorger/rhinox riders if my oppenant is ok with it.;Y
Sunday 20th July Wood Elves vs. Brettonians
Mission: Flank Attack (Brettonians attacking)
Score: Wood Elves - 4181
Brettonians - 0
The thread about Yhetees vs. Leadbelchers had some good ideas in it as well. Made me consider if I wanted to use the standard 2x2 Leadbelchers or go for 3 Yhetees and some extra points maybe for a Gnoblar unit. Lends itself to a kind of crescent-like playstyle. Putting the Yhetees on one flank and the Gnoblars on the other. Run the Yhetees and Ogres on their side up full speed while the Gnoblars and Ogres on that side come up slower. Would allow you to flip your battle-line to the side and bring your army up on one of your opponents flanks.
How about some of the other units? Can any of you Overtyrants out there give us runts some pointers about how to best use our Scraplauncher, Slavegiant, Hunter(doesn't seem like it from posts I've seen), or Maneaters(have seen some things about them).
It seems you misunderstood my post - there's a multiple tournament-winning army which has 2 units of yhetees. This is not my list, so I'm not taking credit for it :happy:
longstrider big name
additional hand weapons
9 gnoblar trappers
total = 1999
Yes I guess I did miss the Yhetee part of your post, my apologies. However, if that is the only variety we can hope for, Yhetees or Leadbelchers, then it is not looking very optimistic. Maybe I am spoiled by my first army, Lizardmen. There are competitive builds that use either Lord choice: Slann or Old One. Some lists are skink heavy others use big blocks of saurus for their core. Specials are relatively evenly divided up between Kroxigor, Cavalry, and Terradons(Chameleon Skinks are rarely used), and Rares can be filled with Stegadon or Salamander and still be effective. I don't know about other armies as these are the only two I have. Maybe others lack competitive choice as well.
Maybe I am also using "competitive" in too strong of terms as well. I guess that could depend on the gaming environment where one lives. If the people in the area all run highly tuned, win at any cost, lists then we may only have this one build that can compete. But in other areas where fun and variety are encouraged more we can use other things and still get in a good game. Is this angle more accurate?
That's the correct angle :rofl. The 2 lists that are most competitive (the one with leadbelchers and the one with yhetees) are both for tournament use mostly, or for playing against people with WAACY lists. In a games that are played more for fun, it's certainly more fun for both parties to use just 2 butchers or none, some more bulls, some gnoblars,... You get the idea ;Y
You hit the nail on the head by saying the competetive means different things to different people. I play in mostly tournies because I know I will get three games in. On the occasion that I get a friendly game in it's I am still trying to fine tune my list. Back in the day it was different for me. I got to play 3-4 games a week and a tourney every other weekend. So I didn't feel a need to optimize my list.
One thing I would like to point out is that OK is the youngest army in the WHFB range. It hasn't had the time to develop new units like the other armies and therefore is somewhat limited. If you look at the oldest armies there are different ways to play them because they have developed over the last 30 or so years.
My suggestion is, that while OK is limited, get in now. They are still fun. They make up for a lack of deviation in army creation by being tactically challenging. Every win is that much sweeter with this army. I have 2 other armies collected but I am having trouble putting the Ogres aside because I enjoy them that much.
BTW stick witht he LM too. They were my first love. I've gone through a bunch of armies but that's the one that I wish I kept.