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    Viable Tactic or Should I...

    wear a dunce cap and sit in the corner?

    I don't know where this idea came from but the other day I was thinking what if you had 3-4 units set up in collumns rather than rows? The units would be side by side so that all have an equal chance of being charged. The charger can only declare a charge against one of the OK units. He now can not redirect into the other unit because those units could have had a charge declared against them and were not blocked by the first unit. Said OK unit flees. The other 2-3 are left to counter charge. With units of three bulls you would get 1 str 6 bull charge from each unit providing you have the distance. You also get 9 attacks min.

    Odviously I don't see this tactic being useable against all armies. but there are some I think this tactic would work well against. For instance a unit you need to punch a whole through in order to mess up the back field. Other OK, O&G, Empire, maybe VC, etc. i guess I am thinking about armies with not alot of skirmish and units that are either soft or low in numbers?

    IDK I am just trying to think outside the box and get and edge. LMK what you think.:happy:


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  3. #2
    Lord Admiral kithre's Avatar
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    This is when you loose large numbers of Ogres, as even if it is legal (need to read the BR a savvy player will outmanouvre you, get you on a flank, and the get your Ogre columns. And any template weapons such as stone throwers, or pierce-ranks weapons such as bolt throwers, will have a field day...

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    while that sounds like somewhat of a plan, it seems like there would be more disadvantages than advantages.

    first off, with only a 1 ogre frontage, cavalry can be a problem. every army (just about) can use cavalry, and cavalry units outmove ogres and can get 3 bases touching a single ogre base. think of what would happen if a unit of blood knights put your tactic to the test. it would be brutal, not because blood knights are so much better than ogres, but getting only three attacks in return to their nine on the charge would hurt.

    another thing is that most armies you will fight against have toughness 3. BoC, orcs, dryads and a few other are the only core that have toughness 4. with a ranked up unit of 3x2 bulls, you can do impact hits to an entire frontage of units at strength 5, which is still very easy to roll wounds with. also getting 12+ attacks on the charge instead of 4 is nice too.

    i think the tactic is interesting but very narrow in use. if you charged a hero, it might be useful to have an automatic S6 or 7 hit to start combat with.

    but what do i know? i'm still very much a novice with OK

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    Quote Originally Posted by kithre View Post
    This is when you loose large numbers of Ogres, as even if it is legal (need to read the BR a savvy player will outmanouvre you, get you on a flank, and the get your Ogre columns. And any template weapons such as stone throwers, or pierce-ranks weapons such as bolt throwers, will have a field day...

    Honestly I wold love for someone to try to move around this. I have the rest of my army waiting for him.

    I don't understand why a stone thorwer would have any better chance of hitting this than any other OK set up. The collumns could be an inch or even two apart. There for making it highly unlikely to hit more than one unit.

    Bolt throwers or cannons would be a problem and I wouldn't use them in this set up. Or because I would rahter have my expendable bulls shot rather than my Ironguts I could challenge him to shoot at these units.

    first off, with only a 1 ogre frontage, cavalry can be a problem. every army (just about) can use cavalry, and cavalry units outmove ogres and can get 3 bases touching a single ogre base. think of what would happen if a unit of blood knights put your tactic to the test. it would be brutal, not because blood knights are so much better than ogres, but getting only three attacks in return to their nine on the charge would hurt.
    Unless magically moved how would the BK charge the other units? He can only charge one unit of ogres. That unit flees resulting in a failed charge. The other 3 units counter. 3 impact hits at str 6 and 9 attacks. Not that will stop the BK from still kicking the crap out of the thre remainng units but it could work.

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    "Unless magically moved how would the BK charge the other units? He can only charge one unit of ogres. That unit flees resulting in a failed charge. The other 3 units counter. 3 impact hits at str 6 and 9 attacks. Not that will stop the BK from still kicking the crap out of the thre remainng units but it could work."

    while that would counter the blood knights initial charge, you have to remember ogre still only get 2 dice when fleeing to the blood knights' 3. it would be luck of the dice at that point, which is not what i would want to risk 140+ points on

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    220 (x8)

    Page 22 of the rulebook clearly states that the if the charging unit can hit another unit whilst moving at full move, then they may declare a charge against this unit, and then if this unit flees, they can try again at the third unit etc.

    Unless the enemy units are far enough apart that the wider frontage of the enemy unit won't clip the other units (I play a 6-7 wide cavalry formation normally) then you are going to get charged. If they are further apart, only two of the units will probably be in charge range on the counter-charge, IF they pass a panic check for their comrades breaking....

    This tactic will only work against really naive players who are willing to charge their units unsupported, as if anyone decided to charge a single unit into that mess, then they would be asking for trouble. If I saw anyone set up like this, then it would be pretty easy to see what was being decided (it's one of the reasons I have what is known as a crenallated formation for my HE. Try charging my archers, and they stand and shoot, and hopefully you'll clip my spear-elves or heavy infantry instead).

    Most cavalry players will carry out multiple charges simultaneously, e.g. Blood Knights supported by Dire Wolves and Black Knights or a Varghulf. And if you decide to field this way, certain armies will REALLY love it. Dragons for example. With a movement of 6" only, you are fleeing 2D6, on average 7". A Dragon has a flying charge of 20". You are going to give away effectively free VPs if you fail to run away far enough and set up your entire army for panic checks...

    Sure way to get your entire army running if you ask me :-)

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    I was reading the BRB (Bathroom Reading Book) for more clarification about this but had to cut it short. What can I say I was reading carefully!8X

    It's funny your rules quote was from page 22. I started at 18 and only got to page 21. But again I think this example simple. I am at work and don't have the BRB with me but I believe full move refers their base movement not their doubled charge range. If I am correct and you put yourself in that situation you have either moved up too far or naive enough to not charge when you should have.



    Multiple charges from Black Knights and Blood Knights would be a problem. I would, however, challenge a unit of 5-6 direwolves to beat my unit.

    Most cavalry players will carry out multiple charges simultaneously, e.g. Blood Knights supported by Dire Wolves and Black Knights or a Varghulf. And if you decide to field this way, certain armies will REALLY love it. Dragons for example. With a movement of 6" only, you are fleeing 2D6, on average 7". A Dragon has a flying charge of 20". You are going to give away effectively free VPs if you fail to run away far enough and set up your entire army for panic checks...
    How is this scenario any different than normal MSU?
    Last edited by kbolster12345; June 13th, 2008 at 16:16.

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    220 (x8)

    Dunno - 3 Direwolves in B2B could be enough to win or at least draw a combat. However, agreed, you'd probably be worse off having Black Knights "breathing" down your throat :-)

    And the reference in P22 refers to the charge move rather than the base movement, as they are declaring a charge against a unit, it must be one in the charge range...

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    Simpler tactic- same effect, and useful to almost ALL armies: Checkerboarding

    Deploy your units with two unit one behind the other, and then 1 on each flank, line up "between" them. As you move, expand this formation so that you have a diamond shape
    --------OGRES--------
    OGRES--------OGRES
    -------OGRES--------

    Basically, the first unit is there as an advance gaurd. They take the flak, neutralise shooting by getting there first, and blunt enemy attacks. If an enemy hits them, you have 2 units of flankers. If a dangerous enemy hits them, you run away, drawing them into a postion either between your flankers, or infront of your rear "linebacker" unit. With a 12" charge, we can luckily have a very open square, meaning less likelihood of being charged into/onto by way of overrun, and better chances for mutual support.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
    Simpler tactic- same effect, and useful to almost ALL armies: Checkerboarding

    Deploy your units with two unit one behind the other, and then 1 on each flank, line up "between" them. As you move, expand this formation so that you have a diamond shape
    --------OGRES--------
    OGRES--------OGRES
    -------OGRES--------

    Basically, the first unit is there as an advance gaurd. They take the flak, neutralise shooting by getting there first, and blunt enemy attacks. If an enemy hits them, you have 2 units of flankers. If a dangerous enemy hits them, you run away, drawing them into a postion either between your flankers, or infront of your rear "linebacker" unit. With a 12" charge, we can luckily have a very open square, meaning less likelihood of being charged into/onto by way of overrun, and better chances for mutual support.

    yeah this is what I ususally do. I was trying to figure out a way to do it with less units.

    BTW, after reading the rule book more carefully, I have made a dunce cap and selected a comfortable chair to sit in the corner. As Kithre already stated the enemy in the way thing makes it a pain the arse to pull off.

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