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Would you say it is a bad time to start playing OK if I am not already invested into them?
I am planning on owning 1500pt army, as they seem to perform better in this points range, however I read the forums and talk to people and get the general feeling that they might not even be good enough in low points games...
Are they actually able to win combats? I deally I would say they should.. however, starting down -5 combat res (3 ranks standard, outnumber) they have a lot to do! And especially if you take no standard on your own, which seems common with small groups of 3 bulls.
Is the key to hit units with 2 units at a time?
So yeah, I need advice.
 Orks  Tau,
SM  WHFB Chaos
Well I just recently started them back up again and have no intentions on looking back, now that's mostly just me, I don't care what anyone says, OK are a Very Very difficult army too play, especially against the new Army Books and even against some of the old ones, do they have moments where they do great, sure, but is it anything special compared too others.....sadly no, you don't really have anything going for you that's that out of the ordinary compared too others, there are certain things yes, i.e. Bull charges, Gorgers, Gut Magic, ect. but in the end it all comes down too how you played, you will have too play well more than others too get a win, ut I find that a lot more satisfying in the end personally, so I would say if you really want too play them go for it, they are great models and a lot of fun too convert and paint anyway, but I find them fun too play as well, hope this helped : /
"Far to the east of the old world within the craggy valleys and cave networks of the Mountains of Mourn, lie the Ogre Kingdoms."
I picked them as my first WHFB army, and I regret it highly. Basically according to fluff, these guys are pit fighters, and the best fighters ever. WS: 3... all around. The only one with higher WS is Tyrant. That's sad. You miss a lot of attacks. I had 12 attacks and caused one wound once. It's pitiful. If you want a similar army that's actually effective, go Beastmen/Minotaurs.
*edit* Oh yeah, and their leadership stinks too. I played against Dwarfs once, and I tied for one reason only... my guys panicked and panicked and ran and ran for 3 TURNS... I rallied them at the end of the last turn. It was embarrassing. Ogres... running away from Dwarfs.
Last edited by LuckyNumbrXIII; February 18th, 2009 at 17:12.
It is unfortunate that ogres aren't as good as they are ment to be. Thats what happens when a 40K player writes a book for fantasy.
They do lack a lot of things, but a good general can always triupmh in the end. I played a 3000point game against a fully mounted brettonian army and i massacred him. His general died painfully.
It just when you do finally figure out the kinks, and their weaknesses can you over come them. Any good general can come out on top. Yes you do have the starting problem of low weapon skills, the big points cost, and virtually no armour. But you do have fun.
I like using the rune maw and a big unti of gnoblars, it turns out to be very amusing. also in big multiplayer games. made a unit og 30 Hammers take every spell for 6 turns. my partner got annoyed but, he only lost half the unit
In small point ogres can easily triumph as they have the multiple wounds which help big, and is in your favour. Only when you hit the 2k mark do u have problems. In 3k and above you have enough to match what anyone wishes to throw at you.
Sunday 20th July Wood Elves vs. Brettonians
Mission: Flank Attack (Brettonians attacking)
Score: Wood Elves - 4181
Brettonians - 0
I just got into WHFB, literally a week ago and purchased a decent looking OK army on ebay. However, what I've been reading makes me a sad panda. I've looked at Ogres for a long time and after a couple years finally decided to dive into WH. Unfortunately I didn't find these forums before I received the army in the mail.
From what I've read, OK is crap. They're one of the worst armies in the game. You can't use them in tournaments (Edit: 'They're no good in tournaments'), they have trouble fighting every army, and they're very difficult to play. Does this ring true or are people posting after blistering losses to those fairy wood elves?
Should I cut my losses, try to resell the army on ebay and pick up something different, say skaven or lizardmen?
Personally, I see no problems with OKs if used right. I find that generally, we will have some of the fastest units on the table. Facing massed Chaos Knights and Chariots, or a Dragon list is definitely a problem, but overcoming them is part of the challenge of mastering the army.
When against a slower army (very common), my ethos is to hit hard and hit fast. A unit of four Ironguts will slice through a lot of things, and a unit of four-five Bulls with a Bruiser in it should accomplish the same thing. The Bull Charge is horrible, and the massed attacks can be telling. I'll see combat turn two-three, and follow tactics similar to that of Bretonnia.
Against a faster army, I'm still working on it, but my thoughts are of a Bait-and-Flee nature. Get a cheap unit in close, when the enemy unit charges, flee, and have a unit of Ironguts or something else big ready to declare a charge on the freshly exposed unit.
I'm not a tourney gamer, but I think OKs are just fine as an army. However, they do take a lot of skill to win with, which for me, is part of the reward of running a harder army.
It depends if you want to play tourys or for fun. Lets face it ogres are fun. Who doesn't have fun with thier ogres because that is how I choose my armies. Ok it isn't fun to lose but it is fun to play. Everyone remember it is a game of toy soldiers in a sense. My high elf list normaly loses but I wouldn't change them at all. And I wouldn't do it for my ogres either (yes loads of leadbelchers and scrap lanchers are fun).
Daemonic cheese-how? Well, you would need to start with daemonic milk, i guess...
I agree with Goliath Ogres more than anything are fun! I have the starts of a WoC army and my University has a tournament on in a couple of months but because Ogres are amusing more than anything ( Such as my Gnoblars failing their fear check when Minators charged them so they hit on 6's wound on 6's and still caused 4 wounds to win the combat!!!).
This will be my second tournament with OK and i won the first one (at 1500 points, this one will be 2250) so im hopeing they will win me another. I wouldnt go as far to say OK are crap with some of the newer books they have been left way behind but they still have their good points.
Ogres are a hard army to use, i didnt realise how difficult they would be when i baught mine, but they are very rewarding when you claim a victory (especially against the new VC and DoC lists, having two wins under my belt against them with Ogres).
GW has a habit of writing fluff they can't live up too(*cough...new marines...cough*), and Ogres are no exception. They simply aren't very good at close combat, at least in normal unit on unit battles. I've actually had good success with them, but only when I use them like calvary, not blocks of troops. You've got to hit their flanks with multiple units at once, or even night goblins will give you a problem.
Ogres just aren't very competitive in the present 'magic' focused warhammer. Don't get me wrong, their magic is good, but none of their spells are too overwhelming, and you can only play the magical Lord in VERY high point games, limiting you to a large number of less powerful casters, which usually have to be loaded up mostly with dispel scrolls in order to be competitive.
Most of the Ogre army's strength comes from their leaders, Ironguts, Gnoblar Trappers, Gnoblars, and Gorgers. Everything else really just pales in comparison to other CC focused armies, and to make matters worse, Ogres suffer more from shooting/artillery even more than any other CC focused army.
Bulls are downright pathetic for their cost. No tougher than Dwarves or Orcs, no stronger than Orcs on the charge, no rank bonus, below average leadership, and light armor at best, if you pay for it. 3 Bulls have 9 wounds and 9 attacks, but for the same cost you could have 21 Orcs with 21 wounds and 21 attacks. All that and you'd get a +3 rank bonus too.
Ironguts get a LOT of bonuses from a relatively low cost, so there's no reason to take more than the one mandatory unit of Bulls. Ironguts have great weapons, heavy armor, better leadership, and can take magical standards. They're the backbone of the Ogre army.
Gnoblar trappers are fantastic for march blocking, and normal gnoblars are good for guarding, distracting, or just claiming a table quarter.
Gorgers are incredibly powerful for their cost, and your best weapon against artillery and long range shooty units. They can also land killing blows on enemy heroes too (I've won a few games that way).
Leadbelchers are okay, just a bit vulnerable. They work best if kept low key, not attacking until the moment they're most needed. I haven't tried a scraplauncher, so I can't be sure how well they do.
Maneaters never make up their cost. They aren't that much more resilient than an irongut, and wind up costing nearly twice as much.
It's with the heroes/lords that the army really makes up for their shortcomings, and finally live up to their fluff. Tyrants are DEVASTATING, especially when armed with the Tenderizer or Siegebreaker. There are many great builds for these guys, and I wouldn't even dream of playing an Ogre army without one. Bruisers are only used for company battle standards, and only in some armies. Butchers are also a must have for their great buffing magic. Hunters are good, but there never seems to be enough room for them.
I really like Ogres, and yes, you can do well with them, but only if you play them in a VERY specific way. There isn't much room for variety. In your average game of around 2000-2500 points, your army's going to look something like this:
Tyrant w/setup of your choice
Butcher w/1 dispel scroll, bangstick
Butcher w/2 dispel scrolls
Either another Butcher or a Bruiser w/battle standard and setup of your choice
4-5 Ironguts w/standard, lookout gnoblar, musician
4 Ironguts w/standard, lookout gnoblar, musician
4 Ironguts w/standard, lookout gnoblar, musician
4 Ironguts w/standard, lookout gnoblar, musician
8 Gnoblar Trappers
That's basically it. You could field a butcher with the bulls and cut out a unit of Ironguts, or downgrade the Tyrant to a Bruiser, and instead field some leadbelchers, scraplaunchers, or Rinox riders, but that's basically the only choices you have if you want to be competitive (at least from my experience).
Ogres aren't a bad army, they're just a limited one. If you only want to play Warhammer casually, they might be a good choice, since they're relatively cheap and easy to use, but if you really want to delve deep into the game, you're better off with an army with a more recently updated codex.
Last edited by mynameisgrax; March 13th, 2009 at 20:54. Reason: forgot one thing
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