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Well since my models werent painted a generous friend at my store with over 5k of ogres let me use his stuff as he simply collects them. I went into a tourny with a prize of 2 battalion sets(so extremely competitive.) I went with a list that noone/not many use, In the tourny i came 2nd only behind a demons player(mind you i face 1 before the finals). Here i will be describing units and strategies on how to effectively win with ogres.
The one thing that i notice at many tournaments that ogres play is that all the lists are identicle. So if anyone played them they know how to beat them. That is the biggest factor in ogres being so weak, no diversity. Also alot of people call real strong units weak for some odd reason and potetionally useless units strong. So here we go with units.
Please if you can always take one, they are basicly walking dragons that can take magic items, People really underestimate thunder mace. IT IS ONE OF THE BEST IF NOT THE BEST MAGIC WEPON OUT THERE. As it can destroy character like as if they were water and regiments. Sure you get one attack and i can get a tenderizer(which is good) but if you hit with this wepon againts regiments you will kill between 6-10 models.So chaos warriors are useless even though there armor. Againts character you can option to have 5 str 7 attacks or go with 1 thats str 8 and no armor saves allowed and D6 wounds. If you hit, you have 60% chance of killing him.If your still not convinced or dont like taking chances go with tenderizer,giantbreaker,greedy firs,IR,HA. This guy can have a wooping 2+save and is str 8 with tenderizer.
In 3k i would take on and no more butchers. Id give this guy probly the most underused arcane item in the book hell heart. why no one uses this is out of my mind. The turn before you are going to charge you use this item. The magic phase will be either useless,bad spell casting or alot of miscasts and death of wizards. Then give this guy skull plucker and skull mant and you are set with a killing machine.
If playing below 2 k get him with a siege breaker and greedyfist/wyrd necklace. Youll have a lord chioce from other armies that no one can stand up to in a challenge if u charge.Other wise no need of them if you have a tyrant.
Every one sayds these are useless but really they are the most usefull units in the army. They dont only give you monster killing/flyer killer from range . The gear for these guys that are the best in my opinion are siege breaker and mawseeker. Sure you have stupididy but you are LD 9 so will not fail. You are as tough as a treeman and hit harder then any other units out there. The other load out is Greatskull and beastkiller. The skull will work beatifully when an enemy cast with his lvl 4 wizard in turn on at him. You reveal it and he will either get a miscast or roll 2 dice and cast crap spell. After that this guy is safe from magice and he can kill large creatuire with relitive ease.Always get 2 sabres with each on and hunter work best in pairs as you have units sttr8 of fast cav.
Pretty useless as most armies have 10 DD, Inly get one if you dont have a butcher and get hell heart. Use it the same way as described in the slaughter master.
Always get 2 units of these of 3 without any upgrades.You can add weps if you have extra points. Thiese are the best fast cav killer in the game. USe these to protect you flanks quite securly.
I wouldnt recommend geting squad of 3-4 . I only use one squad of 6 and put my tyrant /mage in them. Get them a music guy and standar of maw(deflects magic into your gnobler which will be described later)
Get 2 blocks of 20 of these guys. Thats only 80 pints and they can do much more. Since the guts have maw banner you will direct all magic on too these 2 squad evenly. They are basicly magic fodder.
best core in my opinion, IF you have a pair of hnters get max 3 trappers. Use 2 to hang out with the trappers and one to go behind and kill machines/march block. These are always underestimated and usually ignored.
Probly the most oversetimated unit in the game. In my opinion they aint worht there points and shouldnt be taken. IF taken get em in squad of 3-4 to increase damage as they will die anyways.
can be usefull but you need to deploy them correctly or they are useless for majority of game. If positioned right they cvan jump a hill/forest and get an awesome flankcharge. Also great at killing stuff that are protected from mundane wepons, such as banshees of VC and Tree people from WE
Best special choice in my opinion. As it has both physcoligical factors and meelle capabilits. If againts squashy low save armies shoot away while moveing. IF againts armies with high save dont shoot and get in meelee fast. These will destroy any units fast.
These are overprice ogre bulls with a little improvement. IF taken only get a squad of 2 with chathlilin sword and GW. Try and get flank charges with these
Best units to take fire and keep your ogres healthy, Him combined with scraplauncher will keep your ogres untouched. Once he get into meele he can devastate them especcially if he get the attack where he has 2d6 str 6 atacks.
Great warmachine killers and should always take on eif possible.
So all C&C is welcome and if you have any question /add ons i will be happy to add those into this.
CHARACTER SET UPS
What ranks you say?
Longstride, Bullgut, Spangle shard, Ha, Ironfist(IF) or GW, guns, 2 swordgnoblers
This is in my opinion the best way to get rid of ranks on enemy units. With a movement of 7" and a small area, he can fit in to tight spots to deniy those pesky ranks.
U KIDDING RITE?
Mawseeker, Gut maw, Spangle shard, Skull plucker, HA, guns
Nothing will irritate anyone than a T6 KB God who regenerates to full health after he just munched on his Chaos Lord With KB. Now thats a 2 in 1 combo.
Mawseeker, Greedy fists, Wyrdnecklace, Grey back pelt, Ha, IF
This is the toughest setup that can be managed on a Tyrant. A T6 2+ armor save, 5++ save and best hit on is a 4+? Now this is what i call a beast.
Olympic terror bearer
Longstride, SPangleshard, Demon killer scars, guns, Ha, GW
Well having a movement of 7" causing terror is well terrifying XD>
Kineater, 3 Thief stones, Fistful of laurels, Ha,GW
This is our best unit supporter as he both helps magic get shut down and makes sure his ladz aint running anytime soon.
Thundermace, Mawseeker, HA, Grey back pelt
All i can say its down rite heavy hiting.
p0laks set up
Hell heart, Great skull, Mawseeker
This is my shut down magic character that protects a squad rather awesomely with a 50% chance of miscast.
Mawseeker, tenderizer, Gutmaw, Skull mantle
Challenge with this bad boy and watch opponent laugh there bums off till they get pummeled.
All of these lists are fun and still good to go. They are here for helping you achieve uniqueness and competitive list. All are staged at 2250 points
Great out doors
Longstride, Bull guts, spangle shard, Ha, IF, guns, 2 SG
2 dogs, Mawseeker, Great skull
2dogs, Mawseeker, Wyrdnecklace
2dogs, mawseeker, mastodan armor
3 bulls X2
8 trappers X3
3 yhetees X3
This list play fast and dirty. Its playstyle is close to wood elves, hit hard and run away.
Will add more late
i must say that i aggre wit most of what you say but i'm not totallly convinced about the hunter vrs butcher part. the butchers can be very helpfull i find i only think 2 of them are ever nedded, EVER. but the hunter... just lets me down way too offten. now i like most likely everyone else will take a tyrant if one is avalivle, and if i were to play msu i dont know if id find much use in butchers or bruisers so the the only other choise is a hunter but even then i'm not completly conviced of his usefullness.
i really like the fact that you don't completly ignore the giants either! i think that haveing one or possibly 2 running around is awsome, sure they are no longer as good as their counterparts because of being broken but they can still kick some ass, and if your opponent lets them get to close to then it could be bad news for them, so they are forced to take a chance or go for your other units.
i'm not sure how others play but i run 2 scraplaunchers, a giant, a singlel thunderlord, 9 ironguts, 3 bulls, a tyrant, 2 butchers and a bruiser (I also have gnobos to make the list legal). now i have only played 2 games with my list and both were against dwarfs. my opponent new he couldent let any one of my guys get close to him but the only problem was what to shoot at. take the fast moving large targets down or try and whittle that unit of guts down, either way is still a bad decision for him as there is just too manny guts to kill and even if you do kill a few of them the unit itself is still got the destrucive force of a huricane while the rest of your army is free to do as it wants or shoot the fast movers, and then feel just what a massive unit like i have can do; " looks like i win combat by... 12", or "oh your unbrakable thats fine ill just our right kill you then" are right now my 2 favorite lines.
i may think about switching out my bruiser(BS for a hunter but i would need more of a reason then it can take out large targets and flyers good, because in all reality the rest of my army can do that just fine!
i would really like to include a hunter in my arrmy so plaese someone convice me that they ARE good and how to use them and if it would be better than having a BSB running around.
I might agree with the hunter being good if the unit str from 2 units added up for flank charges, but unfortunately if you charge a flank with 2 units of 2 sabretusks, they'll still be getting their rank bonus and you won't be getting a flank bonus. The problem is the hunter tries to be ranged support and close combat support and he can't do both effectively so he won't really be worth his points. Plus you can't release the 'tusks unless you're declaring a charge, and until the tusks are off you can't rotate to fire the harpoon thrower, which severely reduces his effectiveness as ranged support. I'm not saying don't use him if you like him, but he's not competitive really.
The rest sounds great, but there isn't enough variety in troops for opponents to be really surprised, the whole army book has pretty much the same strengths and weaknesses, so any army you build will just be variances of the same thing.
Well i will try and figure stuff out as thanks to arthath ive realized you cant do it, I will most likely change up some stuff and will field a progress report of me facing off a lion theme elf army. I will show tactics i used and how i used my hunters. One great thing about hunters is that they allow you to field more trappers, which mean alot more march blocking to disrupt enemy movements and they can irritate units and if they get luck make an enemy make a bad choice by tring to charge em. Ill post the list ill be using for this game an dits 2250 points.
Ha,Thunder mace, wyrd neclace, and(+1 toughness big name)
Combo 1, 2 dogs
Hunter Combo 2 , 2 dogs
IF hes got decent magic then hell heart,
if not then bang stick,hafling book
6 iron guts
music,standard(maw) or (bull)
Sorry if i missed something in list i will recheck it when i post battle report.
Could somebody explain to me why 4 sabertusks wouldnt count as a flank?
its because they way the rules work at the moment, a unit has to have unit str 5 or more but the tusks will be in 2 separate units so they only have unit str 4 each which isn't big enough to count as flank or for breaking ranks. Unfortunately they don't add up unit strengths in this edition
That seems like it should be changed. The same amount of things are attacking your flank, what does it matter if they are from one unit or three? Would two hunters still be worth taking? I'm quite interested in this thread.
nah i don't belive that having a hunter on the table is a help at all really, unless you know that your going to be going against some big monsters. butchers really are the way to go, you all the RIP spells are helpfull, in there own way. As soon as i get some more games under my gut plate i will be able to say for sure ( i'm really getting sick of these MF dwarfs on the MF plains) but they just don't serve much purpose besides an anoyance, a really costlly one.
Sorry for not updating the thread in a while but i shall begin. I played a high elf army and let me tell you the hunters are awesome. For them to be affective you need them to stay in close proximity to each other. I had them in front of 2 lion chariots and i was able to kill both by turn 3 with shooting. With the combos that i had i made a miscast happen on turn 1 which ended his miscast and i set up my str 8 hunter just far enough to make a failed charge with there chariot and charged it and smashed it. Hunters are probably one of the best choices in the army. They are probably one of the hardest units in fantasy to use correctly but if you do they are devastating.As goes for the thunder mace, my god is it power full XD. His White lion squad of 20 charged his squad of 7 and i hits with the weapon and kill 9models. Was my opponent shocked XD.( little side joke, he was amazed at how no one uses this weapon and was terrified of it XD). If people have questions about stuff fell free to pm me in a message or leave a comment here. I am more then happy to answer you questions and will look here more often.
this is an edited version of a knee jerk reaction to your tactica. I apologize and make this attempt to rectify my mistake.
Now lets look at your comments on the different choices in the OK army.
Yes the tyrant is a badass and if playing over 2k you should take one. However that's where it ends. The thundermace is a nice weapon but when you describe it there is a word you keep using. IF. IF you hit with it. That's one attack. ONE. Give him the tenderizer and he attacks 5 times..... With a possible 15 wounds. not D6 wounds. That's with str 7. one less that the almighty thundermace. sorry, Your logic is flawed when it comes to that weapon. Another point. You stated that giving the tyrant the tenderiser, giantbreaker,greedy firs,IR,HA will confer upon him a 2+ save..... Firstly I am unsure what IR is. I assume HA is heavy armor. I am still unable to give the tyrant better than a 3+ save and thats only in CC. Please explain how to give the tyrant a 2+ save, for I would love that.
Slaughtermaster. Again I agree with the choice. he is a great lord choice. Again it ends there. Hellheart is cool, but costly, one use only and well, there you have it. Skullplucker is silly on him (but that's a personal choice). Killing blow is nice but why not give him seigebreaker? That's 4 attacks at str 7.....
Bruiser. Why in the world would you tell people that there is no use for him if you have a tyrant? The tyrant cant carry the Battle standard nor any standards for that matter. If you state an opinion please explain your choice.
Hunters. WOW! You love hunters huh? Good for you. However, they are a very specific choice for very specific uses. He has a one shot weapon, which is not terrible, but for the points cost of the hunter himself its a bit pricey. Once again your personal choices have gotten in the way of a decent breakdown of a character choice.
Butchers. I disagree. One dice gut magic is some of the most deadly in the game. You have to be smart to use it however. Running 2-3 butchers in a 2k game is just nasty. 3 butchers = 8 casting dice. you stated that most armies you face will have 10+ dispel dice. A dwarf army running a runelord and 3 runesmiths only has 9 before buffs. If you play a 3k army with a slaughtermaster and 2 bulls that's 10 casting dice. Bulls are great...but again that's just my opinion.
Bulls. They are ogres. That's about the end of it. They have no armor, no big weapons. Not much here. Yes you have help guard flank attacks with them and that's about it.
Ironguts. This is your bread and butter here...... NOT Trappers. Not in units of 3-4 you say. I know MANY players that would strongly disagree with that broad statement. your army Needs ironguts to survive. 3 units of trappers Vs 3 units of Ironguts. Kinda silly comparison.
Gnoblars. Depends on your play-style. If you choose to use them as magic fodder/meatshields that's good. Some folks just don't like runties in their army
Trappers. My mirth is almost bubbling over however I shall restrain. Trappers are decent march blockers.... End. Leave the warmachines to the Gorgers.
Leadbellchers. While they may be overrated in some views, I have seen a squad of 3 take out 10 grail knights in one volley. Nuff said. :-)
Yhetee. Amazing troops here. Yes if you deploy them badly they will be useless.....but, if you put your tyrant in a far corner he will be too. No matter what unit you are talking about you have to deploy them correctly or you will lose usefulness.
Scraplauncher. Its a good ranged weapon. Scattershot but good. However I must question your logic about charging him into combat. yeah he gets impact hits but a smart opponent will nullify that. And then he's just a little stronger than 1 bull. Not the killing machine you made him out to be I'm afraid.
Maneaters. Just a little better than bulls? They have a better WS, BS, Str, Init, Att, LD, Sv. AND they are stubborn and IMMUNE to psych. ( just a question... what in the blazes is a chathlilin sword???)
Giants. Can be good I guess. In my opinion they are junk but everyone has their opinion. Yes they soak up fire, and "can" be deadly in CC however you used that word again "If" they get this or "if" they get that/ I don't like if's if I can avoid them
Gorgers. Nice unit. I like them and always play them. Good flank chargers and war machine killers. Be careful about placement as they will die if shot much.
In conclusion, if you wish to construct a tactica you must keep a few things in mind. Firstly and foremost, make certain you have enough games under your belt to be taken seriously. Second, offer your opinion if you must but give a well rounded, objective view of each army choice. Thirdly and this may be trite and picky but it bears noting. Make certain you can spell the words you are using. A literate accounting of an army will be taken more seriously than one with grammatical atrocities.
Have a good day and happy gaming
OK, please refer to the point I made in the post below this about keeping things civil. -AFG//
Last edited by ArchonFarseerGuy; November 18th, 2009 at 02:31.
Armies to date:
2500 Ogre Kingdoms
2500 Tomb Kings
1500 Space MArines