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Ogre Kingdoms Tactica
I’ve been playing ogres since they were first released and my playing style has changed over time, whilst trying to not sound arrogant, I’ve got to the stage where I win most of my games against a variety of armies at varying points levels. Remember before anyone gets hissy , this is just my point of view and is not the 100% definite answer to all that is ogre.
These are the obvious bits of the army that I would pick out as weaknesses/advantages without being too unit specific
Speed, they are one of the fastest infantry armies in the game using this speed, being able to get round and flanking your opponent is the way to win with ogres
Fear, it’s not the causing fear that’s good, if something’s hitting back your usually loosing anyway whether it’s on 6’s or not, and it isn’t often that you outnumber something enough to make them run away, unless you have an awesome round of combat and then you probably don’t need the fear to make them break. It’s that you don’t have to take fear tests from undead that I find most useful
Hero’s 4 wounds minimum and T5 they can stand up to almost anything even a small cannon can’t kill one of these guys. I’ll go into more detail later.
Speed, the problem being they have nothing really fast, fast cavalry can run rings round them and heavy cavalry out-charges them, it doesn’t matter that you’re M6, when facing a unit of chaos knights 13 inches away.
Magic, ogres have some amazing spells but they can have too many downsides. Ogres can’t get enough dice to cast many spells reliably, and one dice casting is nice but your if your opponent has anything about them they’ll know which spell you really want and save 2 dice for it. At 2k you can get at most 12 power dice, you can start 1 dice casting but after using 6, and getting them all off, your now on 6+ to cast every spell, this seriously damages magical output. Defensively it costs 130 points for 1 dispel dice, hell heart seems nice but using it can kill your own butcher, remember the miscast table affects all ogre butchers/slaughtermasters specifically, as it says in the Ogre FAQ, so that means you could kill your own butcher 180pts by using his 50pts magic item.
Shooting, no armour and few wounds per unit means that any shooting is deadly, t4 helps but a few volleys of crossbows or anything that isn’t str 2 will easily pick off an ogres and unless you’re running 5+ units that’s a panic check on let’s face it abysmal leadership, coincidentally
Leadership low leadership and panic checks are easier to cause, not really much to say about it.
Combat, yeah ogres suck in every phase of the game , well perhaps that combat isn’t a big disadvantage but WS 3 across most your entire army means that only half your attacks hit against anything that isn’t undead or goblinoid, which is fine you can cope with it, BUT it’s that if anything hits you back they usually hit.
Unit by unit:
here we start with one thing ogres have going for them toughness 5, 5 wounds means that anything’s got a hard job of killing this guy, he’s got good leadership, has plenty of attacks and is strength 5 basic, thankfully he’s WS6 which JUST means he can play with chaos warriors and his strength and toughness means he can play with elves. Even with just a great weapon this guy can go toe to toe with mostly anything.
As for magic items I think that the thundermace and the tenderiser are amazing. The thundermace can win a combat on its own – but you can also run up and go “MISS” which is not good, when using thundermace you need him to be in a unit, 3 ironguts or 2 maneaters backing him up to make sure some stuff dies. The tenderiser used to be my weapon of choice, run in, challenge win by overkill, or attack kroxigor, minotaurs, even other ogres and kill 1 maybe 2 big things in 1 go. Recently however I’ve run a more defensive tyrant, you can only do the challenge-overkill thing so many times before your opponent thinks to decline the challenge or not take unit champions (I found this out when I started to play more tournament players unit champions were scarce) so I just give him a great weapon and, bullgut combined with longstrider can seem like a good idea but you still usually have to kill 2 models to win combat and that’s only by 1 (banner and numbers hurts)
You want a great weapon in my opinion, you got a few attacks but you’re not the best at hitting things, when you hit I prefer the things that I hit to die. A chaos warrior with a shield has a 50/50 chance of standing back up after wounding him but with a great weapon that becomes only a 1 in 6 and you’re more likely to have wounded him, yes it makes no difference against elves, but you already have low strength units with many attacks, I mean you have to take bulls.
Recently I’ve started running my tyrant on his own as it gives my opponent one more thing to choose to shoot/magic: Grayback pelt, beastkiller, wyrdstone necklace and gut maw being my current magic item set up of choice, give him a great weapon and go huntin’ for wabbits – as long as they are large targets. He kills stegadons, doomwheels, steamtanks and even giants with ease, dragons are more difficult unless someone is unlucky with a pursuit roll or very very foolish.
Dont be scared with your tyrant get him stuck in, kill stuff if your opponent has something big your tyrants usually the best way to deal with it so let him go deal. Don’t get him bogged down and probably slaughtered against a large unit with high static combat res. If your using a tyrant in a unit I’ve found chances are your being outmanoeuvred as your unit costs minimum 305pts that with no upgrades. That’s the same points as 2 units of 20 orc boys with shields and full command!
I’m afraid i’ve not used this guy much as its 3k only, used skrag a few times but he’s special so i’ll cover him later.
Its just a mini tyrant , like before I like my bruisers to be defensive, the greatskull, theifstones, battle standard with rune maw magic banner. Anything to save me from that pesky magic that can so spoil an ogres day,.
Saying that however my favourite bruiser is a bruiser with heavy armour and a greatweapon, NO MAGIC ITEMS AT ALL – I know isn’t it scandalous? At 142 pts its relatively cheap and still packs one hell of a punch.
Personally I dislike them my main reason being they can’t take mundane greatweapons, I know its picky but I think they are expensive already so giving them either a 50pts or 30pts magical great weapon really bumps it up AND it means I cant take longstrider with a greatweapon to keep pace with the cats
The cats are good, my second favourite part of being a hunter is I get 2 fear causing kittens with 3 str 4 attacks each, having the cats mean I negate flanks which is great as flanking is the way to win with ogres.
The crossbow in my honest opinion is RUBBISH. It’s hard to hit, you cant move and shoot, its not strong enough to kill things that are more than toughness elf and the strength test? What large target is less than strength 5? I cant think of any at the moment so that means it only has a 1/6 chance of taking off an extra wound... yay....
My favourite thing about hunters, is that for every hunter I have I get an extra unit of trappers
I complained about magic before but I still like buchers, because unlike a normal wizard we can take the hits, even deal them out, I usually take 2 butchers because otherwise I don’t have the anti magic that’s necessary.
Butcher 1 – Siegebreaker (strength 7 butcher hardly anyone expects this, until they’ve seen it once and then know how awesome it is , someone wasn’t worried about they’re black coach because I was only a butcher with 3 attacks at strength 4 – they learned.) an skull mantle, its almost like they were made to fit together -1 ld hurts anyone combine that with brain gobbler, and very nicely point out that your sorry but that ld test is at -1 so those minotaur haven’t passed and so have to run now
Butcher 2 – dispel scroll x 2 or swap 1 for a bangstick if I know what im facing and aren’t worried about magic. Simple
I use my butchers together magic my two spells of choice are brain gobbler and bone cruncher Strength 2 is weak but no armour saves is amazing, I usually pick off small units to cause panic checks and manoeuvre myself to cause panic checks that make units run through others.
Well you have to have some of these mine take additional handweapons and comes in a unit of 3. I used to run units of 4 but found they were just as easy to panic and just as useless in combat. Light armour and ironfists are expensive and imo if you ever charge into a combat you cant win your playing wrong, and if they are hitting you back they are usually winning.
Like seemingly everyone else I think these are the things you want, like bulls they cant hit for toffee but this time they actually cause wounds like the bulls I take units of 3 for 144pts they are cheap and more manoeuvrable, my play style also involves throwing units to the dogs so being cheap means I don’t mind too much when they die.
Can be useful, they can block line of sight to your ogres or with a rune maw absorb spells. I don’t believe that they can be the ranks to your fighting as some people say for two reasons, if they are in combat with the same time as ogres your going too slowly. Or they charge in get massacred and then you lose combat due to dead gnoblars.
But I do believe they can claim table quarters well
Yes these guys are amazing, use them to march block, use them to block line of sight for a turn for a wizard it can be worth it. Scout and skirmishers are something amazing.
What you do is you throw away the leadbelcher sprue and then make them into ogre bulls. Maybe next edition will change that but for now...
What are they good for can id like some input on this one? What do they do well? The only 2 things ive ever thought they might be good at is blasting is a giant, or a dragonmage on a dragon.
To kill a giant you need on average 27 shots. 27?! Thats at least 3 leadbelchers and that means rolling 2 tens on artillery dice. They just imo aren’t worth it.
Wow “Ignore terrain”, wow. They start off good, good movement good special rules and str 5 means okay strength. Problems being they are very expensive so taking more than 1 unit of them and your army starts to get smaller and smaller.
Hmmm not had much experience of these, ever since I had an amusing day of entertainment just watching a blueshirt stick one together (may of been black back then cant remember) . However rules wise im not impressed either. Chariot, too many things are str 7 these days so it doesn’t matter how many wounds you have or what toughness you are when a chaos hero introduces you to his big axe. Also killing blow sounds good, but call me old fashioned but I just like the regular old “always ignore armour saves” of regular war machines.
Wow hard hitting, they’re like units of mini-hero’s they can be str 7 and just massacre things, or they can take longswords and just hold an empire unit their for days killing things before they hit back then rolling stubborn.
The main problem with maneaters is that they are a rare slot.
Lets give ogres something good – okay how about something that comes on from a table edge, is unbreakable, has 4 wounds at toughness 5 and 4 strength 5 killingblow attacks. Err okay... Dont leave home without these guys, they can negate an ogres greatest fear (cannons) with ease, although you cant charge on the turn you come onto the board I like standing 1 inch away from the cannon so that they have to grapeshot to realistcally hit me and even then im only a partial. Or maybe they turn around an entire shooting unit to shoot you and if your lucky you being toughness 5 will survive and thats another turn not shooting the angry angry ogres running at you. Undead learn to fear the gorger – wheres your general/hierophant? Okay good go fetch boys. Crumble please. Even if you just pin the unit in place what with being unbreakable you give time for the tyrant/bruiser etc to run over and smash the unit /character to pieces.
I’m not keen on giants to begin with. No armour, large target, a lot of points, they can do some damage but more importantly, if they don’t they are ld 10 stubborn. Slave giants aren’t. There will always be the time you run against a unit of 20 goblins who manage to pass terror, you’ll roll swing with chain and kill 1 goblin, then lose by 3 ranks banner numbers... ld6. Or they fight a monster, unlike a regular giant its throttle with chain not swing with club. Most monsters have a high toughness and will pass 5 times out of 6. Or in the case of a steam tank, automatically pass.
Ogre Big Names
Kineater – useful but only short range and is a lot of points out of your tryants magic item limit, is very cool on a second tyrant that isn’t your general, spread the load a bit.
Mountineater – why bother? Anything str 6 or less can ONLY wound on a 3+ anything str 7 or more wounds may wound on a 2+ usually, wounding on a 3+ only means that 4/6 hits wound rather than 5/6 so thats only 1/6 less if you want 1/6 less wounds take a talisman of protection for 15pts less.
Longstrider - awesome but if you flank a unit you still don’t ignore ranks, and to take the bullgut you need to be a tyrant. Can be a nice suprise to charge into that knight unit wielding a greatweapon like well a mad ogre when they thought they were safe.
GiantBreaker – cool. Very awesome the only problem is that you need a slave giant as said above
Deathcheater – underated but still not amazing, ive used it once or twice but theres better things out there.
Beastkiller – great on tyrants, don’t think its as good on hunters, tyrants can take greatweapons hunters can’t (incase you haven’t guessed I like greatweapons)
Wallcrusher – Not played with many defensive obstacles so I don’t know about the ignoring them part, but impact hits? I hardly ever get them off or I don’t need them so personally I don’t like it.
Mawseeker – toughness 6 is great, but stupidity is problematic, I sometimes take this but not in a tournament or competition, though I did once take 4 toughness 6 characters with a 2+ armour save each in combat – boy did that annoy my undead playing friend.
Sword of striking – cool ive used it with a tyrant and gone beating up elves, hitting on 2’s wounding on 2’s with 5 attacks means on average 4 dead elves, considering most elf units are small that can be a unit that’s lost combat.
Sword of battle – I like this weapon very little. Why take this when I can take an additional handweapon? I suppose I can take an ironfist as well and have a 3+ armour save with 5/6 attacks depending on whether its a bruiser or tyrant but your still only strength 5, my exception is when ive had a moment of madness and taken a slave giant, give them giant breaker and watch them destroy basic units.
Sword of might – I can be strength 7 without the greatweapon, with giant breaker as well but thats 45 pts rather than 12...
Biting blade - its a magical ogre club, for ten points you can have an ironfist with it but also it means you have a magical attack to kill ethereal units.
The problem with the above weapons is that 9/10 a great weapon in my opinion is better. Strikes last is great, if i’ve been charged or in a second round of combat, im losing or I want that specific unit to lose.
Talisman of protection – generic 6+ save, whatever
Staff of Sorcery – 50 points, still the expensive one. because your not a high elf, probably not worth it either theres better items to take, or that you’ve got enough dispel dice and its still not worth it
Dispell scroll – good, useful. It’s a dispel scroll if you play warhammer you know what one does.
Power stone – awesome if you’ve got 3+ spell casters its basically a free ogre spell, suprise your opponent, on turn 3 after they’ved used all their dice cast 2d6 str 2 hits on a cavalry unit or give a unit regenerate etc.
War Banner – its a warbanner.
Thundermace – mentioned this in the tyrant section if you take a unit with the tyrant you don’t really need it if your not with a unit your running a big risk of doing nothing and being beaten by combat resolution.
The Tenderiser – run in shout challenge and kill multi wound creatures.
Seigebreaker – my favourite weapon, hit a steam tank with it and watch it die, give it to a butcher and have a spell caster that can brawl with most enemy combat hero’s and can still wreck a chariot – love this weapon.
Skull plucker – killing blow is nice but im gonna go with my usual. Best case scenario your fighting something ws5 or less with a tyrant 10/3 attacks hit so 5/9 killing blows, and your only str 5... OR take a great weapon and cause 25/9 wounds on anything toughness 5 or less. So and unless they have a 2+ save or better they are dead.
Bloodcleaver – great, but not as good as siegebreaker for my butcher :p at str 4 I don’t usually cause enough wounds to warrent this weapon.
Mastadon Armour – In my opinion, too expensive. Nice being able to stand back up but its only on 1 wound all you need is 1 lucky hit in close combat after being blasted with a cannon. Not even sure about this as well but it says an “attack not made in close combat” last time I checked the only things that were attacks are shooting attacks and close combat attacks, pit of shades for example, is not an attack. So magic still gets through, I don’t know has anyone had great success with this or do they, like me, just pretend it isn’t there?
Greatskull – is grrreat! Sorta. If your not playing dark elves or 2000 pts don’t bother its nice that a double 2 or 3 is a miscast as well but unless your rolling a lot of dice its still only a small chance, also as soon as your opponent learns they start using 2 dice fireballs.
Gutmaw – regaining wounds is great and when don’t you challenge with an ogre hero? :p the 6+ save is just a bonus
Bull gut – Unit strength 6 and armour piercing bull charge... hmmm unit strength 6 is great but if you using it to its full advantage you wont be with a unit and hence wont get a bull charge, and if you don’t have long strider your not any faster so may as well just flank with a unit.
Greedyfist – can be surprisingly good, 6+ save is good, absorbing magic weapons is good – but losing a magic level per hit? If your hitting a wizard it should be dead – just occurred to me this might be amusing against Archeon, Galrauch or a magic greater daemon, you wont win the fight but making them a lower level wizard, thats just amusing...
Cathayan jet – 3+ save against wounds caused by magic, is very cool don’t take it if your fighting dark elves, you may get away with it against high elves as most people I know don’t take the law of high, don’t know what its like were you guys play
Spangleshard – plenty of guides out there telling you why wyrdstone necklace is better, it is, I don’t need to go into it
Wyrdstone necklace – is awesome, your going to roll a 1 occasionally but for the rest of the time a 5+ wardsave for 20 points is great.
Gnoblar theifstone – even just one of these can be the difference between stopping a fireball and being blasted into the next dimension remember though your opponent gets to use this to stop your friendly gut magic spells.
Hellheart – can be scary, ive never cared about playing against it tho, I played a friend when we swapped armies, he took 3 butchers, I cast with as many dice as possible miscast, used infernal puppet to make it a 1, my wizard died yes, but I killed a butcher and took 2 wounds off 1 and 3 off the other... oops.
Gruts Sickle – I don’t like making it easier for my opponent to cause a panic check, I also don’t put my butchers in units often so I hardly ever use this item. It has potential as I can one dice cast without worrying whether it’ll cast or not, problem is I like other magic items better.
Halfling Cookbook – I don’t tend to use any of the 3 spells it protects you from as it doesn’t fit my play style, and when I do its only every so often.
Bangstick – very good blast some fast cavalry or even just draw out some dice.
Skullmantle – Minus 1 Ld, great, its implications are obvious.
Brahmir Statue – Too race specific unfortunately and also Chaos? What is chaos, to wind up a friend I tried to argue that his squabbling orcs were obviously very chaotic :p. On the other hand I did use this against skaven and caused ikit claw and 25 stormvermin to run off the board on turn 1... I don’t like it because either its useless – or unfair.
Daemon-Killer Scars – never used them ive always needed the magic item allowance for other things such as...
Greyback Pelt – Awesome, ignore difficult terrain and -1 to hit is great. Its an enchanted item so can be combined with a ward save, a 2+ armour save in combat.
Jade Lion – Is good but I don’t like putting ogres in units as said before, my own personal preference but hey, its my tactica
Rock Eye – I don’t use it. I’ve played against most armies and can usually pick out what magic items everything has.
Fistful of Laurels – If you have 15pts spare its great, may be one use only but if it can keep you in combat when youve been unlucky its amazing.
Dragonhide – yes ice magic doesn’t exist, but re-rolling ones to hit and wound is great.
Ragbanner – Is quite useful but is a lot of points and just isn’t as good in my opinion as rune maw or warbanner
Cannibal Totem – unless you know your playing ogres or an all minotaur army don’t bother its 25 points of useless.
Bull Standard – its rare that I get the bull charge for 25 pts, again warbanner.
Rune Maw – if theres a unit you want to protect this is great, on a 2+ put it onto another unit for example the unit of gnoblar running behind them.
Skrag the slaughterer,
Great. Unbelievably awesome, he’s a killing machine with 6 attacks. Killing things makes him harder, he’s a level 4 wizard and can be your general at 2000 points
Problems is before he kills something he has no save of any kind. He’s frenzied and its so easy to bait frenzied things.
The best thing about him is that he makes gorgers 2 for 1 and special. Skrag kills one model and the gorgers come on.
Personally i’ve never managed to kill 10 models with him so i’ve never made him the killing god, but just killing one model is good enough.
Never used him but he just seems over expensive, slow and not actually that good a fighter, 3 attacks is low for a lord, nevermind a special character. Hoardmaster is a good rule but im not sure its worth over 550 points.
I think i’ve done enough for now but will add to this later and update as people give advice or maybe I listen to my own :p
Dont use bulls, doesn’t work too well with bulls :p
One of my favourite tactics is to run an ogre unit an inch away from some cavalry unit, and flee when they charge. I’m caught, destroyed but I have a unit ready to flank as I know exactly where that unit will end up. If they don’t charge, then I do, cavalry is one of the few things ogres, ironguts, can take in the front.
Did similar things with gnoblar trappers, scout them near frenzied units, force them to charge and then overrun/pursue the way you want, counter charge = dead. Skrag the slaughter is my favourite counter charge, killing a model as soon as possible, gaining that all important regenerate and making my gorgers appear.
This is basically a list of notable problems for ogres.
Yes beast killer, tenderiser and siegebreaker wreck it up, but it’s got a bigger charge than you and if you get a bull charge off each of your ogres take D6 strength 6 hits – OUCH. If it charges you 9/10 its game over. Not much can take the hits from an angry steam tank.
Monsters in general
They are usually as fast/faster than you, are tougher stronger and have more wounds. Got to be careful how you deal with them, a giant? That can be okay as long as you charge but a hydra? That a whole other problem
Cry. You can take it with heroes or a flank charge with ironguts but lucks got to be on your side or else you have to be very very sneaky.
Mage on a dragon
Ouch this one hurts it’s difficult to catch it but hopefully some lucky spells or bound items will cause it to flee (brain gobbler – usually low leadership) or a few wounds (bangstick – mage = no armour, bonecruncher – usually toughness 3) or maybe you’ll be lucky and it just blows itself up.
Non-mage on a dragon
Cry. Pack up, go home. I can’t do it. Not even close. I’m welcome for ideas? Hope it’s frenzied?
But these are the problems. Its movement 20. Cannot be blocked in and cannot be stopped. Yes I know an ogre tyrant could mess up a dragon but when against a competent player are they ever going to let the one thing that can kill you, be close enough to kill you. High elf lord on a star dragon puts out 11 str 7 attacks. That’s a dead tyrant. That’s a dead anything but unlike other armies you don’t have the shooting to kill it at range (leadbelchers don’t count as they can’t get through his armour nor can they get in range) nor do you have enough offensive magic to kill it. Unless your opponent is a complete idiot and decides to put the dragon in front of your tyrant/bruiser/skrag within 1 inch, maybe deciding to flee and only rolling an 11? I don’t know, any ideas would be welcome (please don’t be offended when I try to pick wholes in your idea – don’t want to lose my excuse of it can’t be done )
Well errr that was longer than expected and i rushed the end and its not finished - great
Hmm just noticed not formatted as well as it could be. Fix that later... tired now.