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I've been witnessing some game were the mandatory bull units are in various sizes, and find they are mainly used in either 4 strong or 8 strong. Is one of them any better than the other?
Because I find the 8 strong can make a good CC ancor with 24 unit strength, untill the ironguts get the flank.
keeping the squads cheap and manouverable takes us to the 4 ogres wich can be used in a more ''marauding'' style of play.
Any thoughts on this? I'll have to choose pretty for a 2000 pts tournament, so feel free to add up your comments
personaly i feel that 8 bulls in a unit is far to many.
imagin 4x2. This will give you +1 rankbonus and +1st for the bullcharge and a unit strength of 24. This is all good but the cost of the unit will be (with mus. and stand.) 310 points and the 4 bulls in the second rank are just sitting there doing nothin really and in my oppinion eating up your points. I would go for units of 4 or if you whant a bit larger unit i would go for 6 (giving you +1st when charging) and a unit strength of 18.
Except everything can't be explained with points and close combat, there are other stages.Originally Posted by Heelix
First, I will comment on one thing about size, outnumbering is very important for ogres, as that means if they win combat, they will autobreak the opponent. Welcome to a fear causing army. This is a good chunk of where large successes come.
Here's the other thing. Bigger units are harder to whittle down. 4 man ogre units (or less) just need to take ONE casualty before taking a panic check. That means odds are, you'll have one or two to make in a game, and with Ogre leadership being mediocore, and how bad a unit of Ogres running is, means there is a benifit to being 5 or bigger.
Larger units means shooting is going to go in them, which is great, because it may distract fire from other units. If you had 4 bulls, and 4 ironguts, all shots are going into those ironguts. If you had 8 bulls and ironguts, your opponent will think twice, especially with boltthrowers and cannons.
It's just more reliable. Predicting what a 4 man unit will do three turns in advance is not as secure as predicting a 8 man unit. It is a game of chess, and it's good to know what is going to happen with your pieces.
@OmnipotentKiwi: i agree that you have to be careful with you ogre units but you canâ€™t just look att the bull ogres and irongut units in an OK army. To get an outnumber, just add some gnoblars at 2 pts each and the will work as an excellent screen to avoid your ogres being hit by nasty arrows and stuff. I still feel that you could have 2 units with 4 instead of one with 8. This would get you more flexibility and the possibility to flank charge and might give the receiving unit 24 (4x3+4x3) attacks instead of 12 and would give you the same option to outnumber.
If you are going to play an all out Ogre army i might consider playing with 8 figs. in each unit, but other wise i would go with 4 and let the gnoblars do there magic
Last edited by Heelix; April 8th, 2005 at 13:09.
OmnipotentKiwi: I must take back some of what i said. Fear and Unit strength goes hand in hand. You are completely right when it comes to the importance of unit strength. So what one need to find is where the balance is? What is the average unit strength?!
I am not that good at the fantasy rules yet :hmm:
I think it is clear to use a unit wich is 8 man strong as an ancor, and have the rest walking around the board flanking or taking on weaker units
How will you deploy around your anchor to make it work? Will you situate your general there?
I think it's a good idea because part of the OK strategy is to utilize fear, and a strong central unit will allow the flankers to do their jobs. With Gnoblars protecting those flanks and threatening the enemy with ranked up units, there's a solid way to break the enemy, especially when bull charges are being made.
I'll probably have it in the middle with the 2 4 man units of leadbelchers, and have the ironguts on the far sides, and since I use the BSB, he'll be with them or next to, as he can dish out some punishement or skirmishing units by himself and preventing them from getting a flank charge if the leadbelchers get ingaged by cavalry.
I can also force to put a strong unit aside when deploying the 8 man ogre unit slightly to the side putting the 2 leadbelcher units to the middle speading volleys as they go.
this way the fire support can be applyed where needed, and the high movement rate of the troop will assure the presence of the irongts either on extreme flanks or support in the middle
I agree with you on screens, and creating speedbumps on your flanks (from another poster), but you have to be real careful on flanking with Gnoblars as they often die easy and can hurt as well as helpOriginally Posted by Heelix
well gnoblars are good enough at many things, and a OK army using ogres and gnobblars as plenty of balance, but I'll be using the 8 man strong bull ogres because I'm playing a a gnobblar free army, since they'll all go to the actual gnobblar army!