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I've basically come down to the conclusion that in all the armies i'm going to be playing, i'm going to be shot all to pieces (dwarves, high elves, dark elves, dwarves, lizardmen (with 24 skinks at least (48 poisoned shots anybody?), tomb kings, beastmen (yay no shooting!) are my typical foes).
I've managed to reduce the number of casualties i take from magic by giving my ironguts a Rune Maw and directing it onto a nearby unit of gnoblars and giving my tyrant a greatskull.
I have no idea however, how to fight against their big stuff. The "high toughness/strength" that GW went on and on about when releasing ogres (you know, the strength and toughness of the average lizardman?), incredibly slow initiative and mediocre weapon skill (yeah i know they're just swinging their clubs wildly, but weaponskill of an empire peasant (free company)?
My opponents are great fans of the big things. Our tomb king player regularly fields 2 bone giants, the beastman a giant and shaggoth and champions that can kill 2 ogres a turn without blinking), the lizardman always has his stegadon and hero on a carnasaur, etc, etc, etc. Actually the only thing that i get a half chance against is the dwarves (except for his 2 cannons and 2 units of thunderers, but that's another matter).
Yes i am ranting, i realize that. I've lost 23 of 24 games in the last 3 months, so am slightly annoyed with this army right now.
Anywho, how do you guys deal with the units that are bigger and better than a full unit of ogres?
I find four things helpful:
1) Gnoblar: Gnoblar Fighters are pretty good at taking out Large Targets. They can get off a lot of shots off and they aren't hitting badly. With so many shots they're bound to do some damage. And they're also a nice road-block to slow down the enemy a bit.
2) Ironguts: Probably your stock and standard way of taking out such things. Their good amount of Str 6 attacks assures that consistent damage will be done. The problem is that people tend to use their monsters as flankers, and big squads of Ironguts are usually in the middle of the field. So, you can either take them to a flank, and 6 Ironguts is much scarrier than a Bone Giant on a flank, or you can have a squad of 3-4 Ironguts on the flank. Either way it's a nasty unit.
3) Maneaters: The amount of times my Maneaters have taken down a Treeman or a Bone Giant. My opponents don't take them against me anymore just because a pair or trio of Maneaters with a GW is perfect for taking out these huge units. Though they're scary, these units tend to not have that many attacks, and not that great WS, so they're lucky if they manage to do more than two wounds a turn, which puts you far ahead in the race. With Gnoblar support for ranks, these things will cut through anything.
4) Leadbelchers: Even though they have to roll to hit, they're not bad at hitting large targets. A squad of 3 is going to be doing some damage to a large target. But over time I've grown to not put too much faith in these things.
So let's have a look:
Treeman: In my opinion it's the easiest to take down. There's a good chance you'll get the charge, and a squad of Maneaters are perfect for taking it down. My Maneaters have never lost a fight with a Treeman.
Bone Giant: Similarly with the Treeman, though you benefit from better WS, so it's slightly easier to take down, but it does get those extra attacks, so make sure it doesn't charge. Make sure that Liche Priest on the flank doesn't cast extra move with it.
Giant: Probably the worst one to come against, just because it's so capable of killing an Ogre a turn with its special attacks. With this one I'd probably go with Gnoblar or Leadbelchers, as it's too good potentially devestating in CC. Shoot everything at it. Try not to put the Gnoblar in CC, because it's stubborn and ranks won't help. Unless it's an OK giant, in which case charge them in and watch him get -4Ld (sucks to be us).
Carnosaur: Well, he'll probably put it in the middle of his army, leading the charge. The good news is we have plenty of hammer units capable of taking out a carnosaur. A big squad of Guts will take it down pretty well. Just make sure you get the charge.
Shaggoth: If he plows down the middle of the field you're ok, because, just like the carnosaur, he's going down to Guts like everything else. If he's the Beastman general he's more likely to do this. If he is the general, and he's on a flank, use Gut Magic to take advantage of Beastmen's pathetic leadership. If he's a smart Beastman player he'll take it as a rare and put it on a flank. In this case it's probably the scariest thing you'll face out of your list of nasties. Try to shoot him and then finish him off in combat. But he is very fast and very tough, so be careful about charges.
So the bad news is we don't have cannons just to shoot them with. The good news is that Ogres have options. Though cannons are very effective against these guys, they're pretty much the only thing these armies have against them. So all most smart players have to do is hide the monster from the cannon, and then take out the cannon however they wish. Out of the list of useful things above, most Ogre lists can easily accomodate each and every one. It's perfectly common to see a unit of Gnoblar, 2 Leadbelchers and 2 Maneaters on a flank. Sure, a monster can probably weather one of these squads, but doing up against being shot by Gnoblar/Leadbelchers and then charged by Maneaters is a very terrifying idea. Most important thing to watch out for is making sure you charge them.
Beasts of Chaos (4000)
Chaos Marines (3000)
yup take gnoblar fighters, combat resolution should swing it there way and hopefully over run, my gnoblars are famous for killing big things,
BOOM, HUR HUR HUR,
3000+ point OGRE KINGDOM ARMY
Join the THE ANZAC CLAN....... or suffer
I am the Empire, 63% Honorable, 49% Bloodthirsty, 44% Magic-minded, and 62% tactically-oriented!
How would you guys counter Dragons? I am fairly new and my friends play Wood/High Elves, which both have dragons.