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Everyone in my LGS warned me not to, but I started a OK army anyway, simply because I loved the idea of mongolian brutes beating the **** out of everything. After a couple of games, I got a pretty clear idea of why they were generally known to suck, poor maneuverbility, lack of numbers, the fact you normally are 4-5 CR down even if you are the one who charged... etc.
I've been having fun, but almost every, nah, every game was a massacare, with my entire side getting wiped out before I could do any real damage. So I've been wondering if anyone had any tips for me, or should I just keep OK as my "fun" army that never wins and starts something else?
First question: Do you field Gnoblars and Butchers? Ogre magic is very cost-effective in low-point games and Gnoblars are just plain essential for being cheap, rank-providing cannon fodder.
Use Light, Beasts, Metal instead of Heavens
NecroLords: Use at least one Death Mage
Brets: Use Peasants&Damsels
Skaven: Don't use Skryre SAD
You could say I am a successful Ogre Player. Brought them to a HoH and a conflict (beyond countless local tourneys), and my count is 6-2-2. For competitve play I think this is a very good score.
The key to ogres is to go light on expensive units like yethees, scraplaunchers or leadbelchers, I am not too fond of 1 trick ponies.
Bulls and ironguts ar eyour bread and butter, while gnoblars are your sweet topping. I will field a unit of gnoblars for every unit of bulls I field, and 2 units of trappers. They skirmish and scout, so they make great screens for thier ogre masters, and if they stick around the hunter, they become loyal!
Thye are great for sitting on a table quarter, or disrupting your opponen't fast cavalry, sharp stuff does kill T3 you know.
I like a butcher with a bang stick and a scroll, its having up to 5 LV 3 spells is nice.
I with the new rules set, I will be running small units of bulls around a kineater tyrant, and some 5-6 man unit of guts to crash down on fronts, while the 3 man units of bulls work for flanks.
Getting outmanouvered depends on what you are playing against. You will have a definit edge against O&G in general for example, but will have to box in a bretonian player to prevent him from outmanouvering you.
Yes. I typically field one unit of gnoblar, another of trappers and typically two butchers or nothing. And I mainly play 2k games.Originally Posted by Teron
Though the gnoblar are great for their ranks and numbers, I find it frustrating that I can't keep them up with the speed six bulls. :<Good enough score for me. Now I just need to figure out how you do it.Originally Posted by Wolf_Pack
I rarely field more then 3 special/rare units in any of my lists, typically going for maneaters and a giant or 2 gorgers and a scraplauncher. Would love to be able to use the scraplaunchers better though.
My butchers tend to have a dispel scroll each and a bangstick/halfling cookbook, want to test out the heart in the next game though. My tyrant walks around with Tenderizer and Wyrdstone Necklace, while my hunter normally has a greyback pelt which I'm replacing with the Longstrider name so the group moves at 7 instead of 6.
I tend to go with bulls instead of ironguts though, since the heavy armor and greatweapon are the only real differences, the no change in stats thing makes me reluctant to use them. Too expensive. :< Normally a large group (7) bulls with 2 3 man bull squads at each side to help out, and a unit of gnoblar plodding around somewhere. Testing out bring 2 squads of gnoblar and 2 squads of gnoblar trappers tommorrow, but I'm starting to feel I don't know how to use gnoblar much... Except as charge diverting fodder. :/ How do you deal with the fact they move at 4?
Anyway, so far, I've played against Chaos (Got pummelled by fireballs then beaten up by Chaos Spawn, Chaos Knights and a Daemon Prince), Empire (Half the army died from shooting before I could do anything. Taught me the value of look-out gnoblar when I lost my butcher to cannon shots.), High Elves (How the hell do we deal with eagles killing out ability to march when we get blasted by magic anyway?), Tomb Kings (I wished we had urgency. :<) and Lizardmen (Skinks chased my Tyrant and his squad of ironguts out of the game).
Got a game with Cult of Slaanesh tommorrow, and Orcs and Goblins soon.
Ok, here a bit of my gaming knowledge.
Ther is more to Ironguts than just heavy armour and a great weapon. They have higher leadership than bulls, and have acces to a magical banner. This means they can baby sit a butcher, and have a Ragbanner to make them cold blooded.
As I see it you use 4 caracters ? Tyrant 2 butchers and a hunter ? Drop a butcher for some more meat. I don't expect too much out of the magic, but it can suprisingly effective if your opponent isn't careful with his dispel dice.
If you dread magic, I use 2 thief stones or a great skull on my tyrant, and a runemaw banner on the guts.
As for the great eagle, I have 2 ways of dealing with it. Maneaters with brace of handguns, and leadbelchers. Fling a hunter harpoon at it can aslo be an easy out.
Has for the hunter items, I like the greyback pelt and biting blade for magical attacks, or longstrider with a sword of battle.
As for gnoblars, deploy them up front, and put your bulls at 6 inches. this will put them out of weapons range in case you don't get the first turn. This will also give a marching head start to the gnoblars who should get there only a turn behind, or at the same time if all goes well (bickering is just too much). By the way, if you let them stall in your deployment zone, they will earn double thier victory points with that quarter.
I can't give you much insight on the scraplauncher, I wind it not worth that many points, although it is nice to have that US 5 crashing in on a flank. it still goes out with a cannonball, the chariot status is a pain.
I used to have a high esteem of gorgers, but they tend to be unreliable. They'll do great in one game, and horribly bad in the next. I tend not to trust such units, kind of just like elves ^_^
With the coming of the next edition, I won't be fielding my units of 8. Fear will be nigh impossible to use, and panic will be rather difficult to cause to small units. 3 man units of bulls, and 5-6 man units of ironguts in a strait ron of 5 against 25 mm bases (they all fit corner to corner) and 4 wide upfront for 20 mm size bases.
The giant is probly handsdone the worst part of the army. Not even stubborn (although cheaper but meh) he can bring you support, but is worth many bulls pointwise.
Indeed look-out gnoblars are worth gold (or dung, depending your general opinion of the runts)
Big problem for large units in the new ed...you don't get ranks unless your 5 wide.Not nice for the brutes,not even a single rank bonus,plus bull charcging goes out the window...
Why would bull charge go out the window ?
That tip about deployment would have been great if I had read that before my game today.
Well, it went as usual, my bulls got taken apart by magic and bolt throwers while my gorgers beat up one bolt thrower and my sabretusks the other. The 16' charge is really nice, and with Longstrider, the hunter group's so much better. Still, I do like Greyback pelt alot though. Experimenting with more gnoblars went really well, In the sense that the trappers tied up the annointed champion before getting killed in melee and overrun by furies. The regular gnoblar managed to finish off his steed though, with judicious use of sharp stuff.
Gorgers work well when they work, and throwing double 6s on turn 2 helped a bit, but they spent most of the time doing nothing, being too far from the actual action. :/ Still, killing a chaos spawn and a bolt thrower for 2 gorgers was okay, right?
Butchers tend to annoy pretty well though, but I'll consider dropping one. What do you normally give your butchers? I normally go for a bangstick and dispel scroll on one, and a hellheart on another.
True, the giant isn't much, but his "win combat resolution automatically" attack is nice, when it comes. Probably better off with man-eaters or something, if I'm not using giants.
Do you bother with any of the special choices? I can't seem to use them well. Do you use leadbelchers?
Oh, and I'll give Ironguts another try.
See ? how many points did you spend to tie up that exalted, and force him to send furies in to finish the job ? about 8 times less than he did !
Purge magic with the runmaw banner and thiefstones like I told you next time. As for the butchers, I use the same as you do, scroll and stick. If you like a more defensive approach, 2 scrolls if you must.
I just worship maneaters with a brace of handguns, you could basically start to pepper is warmachines on turn one unless they are deployed at table edge. They also get a flurry of attacks in CC, wich is devastating of the charge (next edition pistols will just be 2 hand weapons, so a unit of 3 dishes 15 attacks at high strength, plus 3 impact hits.
Cathayan lonswords are also a nice maneater feature, but I love the shooting too much.
I used to field 3 man units of leadbelchers, but they are too erratic in thier behavior. I am now considering a pair of 2 man units, just to clean up fast cavalry , flyers and small unit of skirmisers. They are still great as flank chargers beyond thier shooting purposes, US 6 afterall. You can also try a unit of 3-4 if you like to deal some serious pain, but these tend to attract attention. In some cases it's good, others bad.
I personaly distaste yethees, (I field a greyback pelt!) they are low on leadership, and still have a WS of 3 (so they are hit on 4+ in most cases anyways). Also the fact that they have ice weapons as plural, and yet do not have the number of attacks to show for it.
I haven't played with a scraplauncher for more than 5-6 games, the thing is too unpredictable ! Unless you keep it near your general, it will go off charging a bait unit. S7 will ruin it's life, and we aren't talking about a 85 point chariot here. Another problem is that it cannot march, making it mildly difficult to keep up it's intended position.
On the other hand it sure can do some damage of pointed in the proper direction.
Field smaller units of bulls, they make nice shock troops.
Hmm, I'm going to drop the gorgers, big bulls unit and scraplauncher and bring in maneaters (it helps that I have a ninja maneater. ), leadbelchers and ironguts. Took a couple of your tips in regards to magic items, and stuck with the gnoblar.
So, would this list work?
Posted in the Army list section. CLICKME. (2000 Pts - Ogre Kingdoms Army)