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ok, so i haven't play O&G for years and i am just getting back into them. i have written a few list and played them against (mostly) Skaven and Chaos Warriors, but i always seem to bomb, terribly. so, i have been brain storming and this is what i came up with.
Black Orc Warboss - Armor of Destiny - Iron Gnashas
Orc Great Shaman - Level 4 - 4+ ward Talisman - Dispell Scroll
Black Orc Bigboss - BSB - Mork’s Spirit Totem - Heavy Armor
Night Goblin Shaman - Level 2 - Sneaky Staff of Stealing
Night Goblins x80 - Command - Spears - Netters
Orc Boys x30 - Command - Additional Choppa
Black Orcs x20 - Command
Orc Boar Boys x6 - Command - Nogg’s Banner of Butchery
Orc Bys Chariot - Extra Crew
Orc Bys Chariot - Extra Crew
so O&G masters, am i on the right track? i always seem to have a major flaw with my lists, one that always makes my army collapse in it self, have i done it again?
any help is much appreciated!
Hi there thesave..
I'm Digger. I have been fielding goblins a while now, but i have to admit im no expert, there are better Gobbo bosses here on LO.
Skaven and Chaos warriors are my worst enemies. Skaven because they are even hordier than we are and they keep on shooting even when we're in combat,
the warriors are just our opposites and they rock at it! Impossible to get through their armours and my goblins go down in droves.
Your list is descent, but not optimal. I think its very hard to deploy this army right and win of the armies you mentioned because
Instead of getting ahead, you're trying to compete with the enemy on their own field. It's hard to win like that.
For example, Your characters are expensive. 4+ ward saves on a wizard is roughneck indeed. Im sure the enemy will have them aswell. Except his characters are even more expensive and even better. Orcs don't excell in tough characters, we excell in having lots of cheap characters. The only exceptions are the BSB and the general, the guys we love and dont want to lose.
If you drop the ward on your shaman, you could instead buy a goblin hero with a great weapon and place it next to the shaman inside whatever unit hes in. He now has a personal bodyguard and even have points to spare.
-Now let's look at the 80 spearmen. brilliant unit to look at im sure. ( don't forget to bring you movement tray for that one by the way) Whats the use of the spears? I can see you thinking "to increase their kills ofcourse!"
against skaven youl kill a few extra skaven, which is nice, but there are better ways to spend those 80 points (for example, you use 80 sword+shield infantry, and 2 pump wagons, which make up those 80 extra points. If they charge in as support with the 80, they do alot more pain than a set of spears.)
Now against Chaos warriors. You're hoping to kill a few extra warriors. sorry to tell you this man, those spears arent gonna cut it. a normal sized warrior unit is going to butcher those little bastards and those spears arent going to save you. Theyl need Gork and Mork wielding those spears in person to keep those madmen at bay.
Use the spears for decoration, they look jolly good on the table, but treat them as sword-n-board to save points and you get to spend extra points where its needed..
- boar boyz: not so good in 8th, but its not illegal to deploy them, theyre just expensive, oppinions on black orcs differ ( i field em myself)
The boars have banner of butchery. Now it doesnt work on the mount, which is in fact the strongest hitter in the unit. The riders are not big'uns. Either make the riders big'uns or ditch the banner. (i would say ditch the banner and use the unit for its fear factor.
- Your magic defense: Staff of sneaky Stealing, soirit Totem, Dispel scroll, 6 shaman levels
Brilliant! dont change a thing! Ever
Now keep in mind, what im saying is ofcourse totally personal view, but to change the stakes i think you'd need less powerplayers, and more support for the army.
1. Pump wagons mentioned earlier could be perfect to support units in combat. Unlike spears, pump wagons (and the stronger chariots) can move around and support the unit of your choice, and they can also head out and attack artillery fastcavalry or flankers if thats where theyre needed more.
2. Our artillery is also very very cheap. Your list could do with an extra spear chukka or doom divah. They can be used to shoot at some really expensive chaos warriors, 1 hit will get you your points back. they can also attract enemyso if you deploy them in corners, the opponent will have to make some tough decisions on where to move his fast guys.
3. Last but not least, we have some very nifty units with loads of S5 attacks. think Trolls (a unit of 6 is very scary), or a squigherd ( a unit of 5 herds can take alot of beating and hurt even chaos warriors ) Fanatics are fun, dont bring too many with all the terrain in 8th, but they can open a can of Chaos Knight like no other.
Thats my thoughts.. Hope you like to read :p
Last edited by Digger; September 23rd, 2010 at 23:42.
Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs
Skaven, Chaos Warriors, Empire gun lines are what I find the hardest to play at the moment.
Amulet of protectyness if useful on a Orc Warboss against Warriors of chaos as their characters tend to have a 3+ ward save now.
Banner of Butchery on the Black Orcs is a must.
I personally wouldn't have spears on the Night Goblins, because you could drop them and have almost 2 Night Goblin heros with great weapons or 3 fantantics for 80 points. I havn't run a Night Goblin unit so big but make sure you keep your general within leadership range of this unit so they don't break easily.
I don't rate boar boys, they don't hit much harder that wolf riders or spider riders, although I have considered having 5 with full command and banner of swiftness to counter enemy fast cavarly and skirmishes but I thought it was too expensive.
You should consider the Doom Diver as its excellent against Warriors of chaos, it ignores amour saves and takes down knights pretty quickly. 2 doom divers are good because their also a good counter not only against targets with lots of armour but small units that could potentially attack your warmachines, annoy you etc (harpies, fast cav, eagles etc)
Having a ward save on your Wizard could be handy for a few reasons, if you miscast a lot the wardsave works against a lot of the results and if he somehow ends up in combat or get shot you have some defence. Although I don't go for the ward save as its a bit expensive (although in many games it would have saved his life).
You could consider some fanatics for your Night goblin unit.
I've used at least 2 boar chariots all the way through 7th and a few games in 8th, they still seem to be good and its sometimes worth charging (especially in the flank) a steadfast unit if its not within the battle standard bearers range as it may still fail and if it does it pays off big time.
thanks for the advice, i will do a rewrite today to see what else i can do with this list. you two have given me some good perspective, so lets see where it takes me.
Having the correct units in your list is 1/3 of the battle, Picking your targets is another 1/3, and the last 1/3 is the roll of the dice.
Much like Dr. Dogmeat I play O&G as well as Warriors of Chaos. One army is for fun, the other is for destroying people.
Warriors of Chaos are an expensive Elite style army that relies heavily on having armor saves and multiple attacks.
Orcs and Goblins can surprise you with the versatility of our units. Goblins are similar to Skaven in that they are best used in large numbers with a Hero or Lord in their ranks in order to increase their leadership.
Night Goblins could use fanatics instead of netters.
War machines are Golden in 8th Edition and can make up their points easily.Just keep some troops close by to defend them from attacks.
Chariots are also very important because their impact hit happen before combat and they are great for flank charges, just avoid dangerous terrain.
Spider Riders are great in 8th Edition because they ignore dangerous terrain, have the vanguard rule, and can run circles around units shooting them with their bows.
Boar boyz are a bit iffy. You need at least 7 of them to make them effective, because of our low initiative they may not even get to attack before being pummeled.
Fighting both armies will require different tactics, but you can actually make a list that will be able to be competitive against both.
5000 pts of WoC, 5000 pts of Orcs and now 3000 pts of Ogres...What was I thinking ????