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I'd have to argue that GW might have taken it a step too far with giving Grimgor the Always Strikes First ability. This is however coming from an Empire player who is having to cater for him every game and still hasn't come up with any decent strategies to get rid of him or negate him (unless it's a short game of only a few turns).
From a globin/orc general's perspective - what is your take on Grimgor ? When you take him into battle what do you fear most in the enemy arsenal and how do you make sure he gets into close combat ?
Any heklp would be most appreciated.
In 6th, I only used him when fighting certain armies, Chaos and High Elves mostly. Nothing like spending the points to have someone KB him first round.
well i play chaos and im fully aware of his capabilities....
my friend who is empire is playing against him today.. if he wins ill tell you how.. if i win ill tell you how...
The best bet against grimgore in my opinion is to flank or rear his unit of black orcs hes with... then he doesnt get to attack.. Use something in the front that unbreakable or has a ward save to keep him docked then flank or rear him with knights that'll be my strategy
Death draws near.
Grimgor is nails hard but he is on foot and has no option to be mounted. He is therefore quite easy to avoid. The only way I have found of using him is march him straight at the enemy and time the waagh to gain the extra inches before charging. I don't think the strikes first option is that bad, if you charge the unit he is in from the front then you know what you are going to get. Flank charging his unit and running him down is the best way of dealing with him
Grimgor is supposed to be ultra tough.
Helper monkey, bring me beer and donuts
If you are empire I would suggest blowing him to hell with artillery....
“You know wot the chain o’ command is? It's the chain I go get and bash you wiv 'till you understand who's in ruttin' command round here.”
Many of the "special" characters aren't balanced, no matter what GW says. After all, they want to sell those models to the kids who feel they can't take an army without the imba characters, and they won't sell as many if they can only be used with the opponent's permission. Grimgor is certainly among these, so don't feel bad if you're having trouble.
As empire, as has already been mentioned, your best bet is to gun gun gun. If you can afford it and are able to position yourself correctly, then hit him in the side or rear as soon as you get his block to 10 models with your knights who cause fear on the charge. Nothing will help him vs outnumber + fear.
An army containing him is also likely to be sparse on dispel dice so pick up a wizard lord if you can. You're not going to be able to build a lord who can counter him in CC so counter him before it gets to that point. Burning Head works wonders on orcs. Rule of burning Iron can also target him personally and hits him at S7. You'll just have to pick which lore works best against your opponent's play style.
Thanks very much for the tips. It sounds like Balthasar might be worth talking, he has all the Metal spells so could hit him with the Iron spell you mention. It still seems a lot to spend though to counter a single character but at least it's a plan.
Great advice. Thanks again and all the best,
A really great O+G model is Grimgor - beastly in combat with 7 8/7A, T5, 1/5 save and a severed human head in hand. What's not to like?
Grimgor is not too tough because of his cost. If you're playing someone who understands O+G then they'll field him with 29 buds - the whole chunk of black orc death costing 35% of an army's total points in a 2250 bout. If they're so impolitic as to field him with only 19 cohorts then they're still looking at a 29% knock. Either way that is a huge portion of an army in one single unit. Blast it with artillery, shoot it with troopers or burn it with your mages... simply down 15 or 10 of them and you've nabbed a ton of points for your side.
Grimgor is not too tough because you can easily avoid him. 4m = 8march. Since each army will start at a minimum 24" apart it will take our engine of death at least four turns to get into combat, five turns if you place your army even one inch behind the closest deployment point, six if you place smartly and never if you move well after placing smartly. A Waaagh! will add d6" to this but you've got at least two turns to position before this occurs and you can use march blocking options to make his advance even more doddering.
Grimgor is not too tough because even halfway decent guess range shooty bits can take him down. 1/5 means a 33% chance of surviving something that ignores his mighty armor.
Grimgor is not too tough because you can engage his bodyguard and not him - charge his slow moving unit in its side. Also, you know exactly what you're getting with Grimgor... there are no options for equipment. When you see him on the field you know precisely what he can and cannot do. Grimgor is static and you can move around this. Not the pitiable practice of tailoring your army to fight one specific opponent you know you'll be facing - ie I know Bob plays skaven so I'll give my captain the Helm of Make Skaven run or I know Rob plays VC so I'll make my traditional fire mage into a mage of light. This is bad for fluff [ "Vizier Embermage, the undead troops approach!"... "Undead!? I thought you said we'd be taking on those excreable Tomb Kings... hmm, I just suddenly changed from Shadow Lore after taking on those pesky Dwarves but just give me a moment."... *hrrrrk*... "Ok! Suddenly I know spells from the Lore of Light! To battle!" ], bad for your advancement as a well rounded player and bad for the poor faux battalions you will soon lead into slaughter against a thinking opponent whose force can stand up to whatever confronts it. That's all part of what makes Grimgor such a zeitgeist - people tailor too much in response to his presence. Simply field a tractable force and have your own gameplan not a tailored maneuver to beat such and such an army or such and such a "strat." Account for where Grimgor is placed not simply his placement in an army.
I personally don't field Grimgor unless I'm playing a 5k game - his points are just too much and there are a wider variety of more versatile units available. At 5k he actually helps reign in your troops so that you can realistically fit your entire battle line of O+G in a space six feet wide.
The ONE reason I can think of that has Grimgor being "just too tough" relates to his storyline and it being "just too tough" to swallow... what with leaving Archaon alive and proclaiming some lame catchphrase... I played Chaos for the first 10 years I've been involved in this game and O+G since then and EITHER way that interaction makes me sad... but the less mentioned about that the better.
All that being said Grimgor is a great character with a neat retinue and if you're inventive enough to position him well or are playing an opponent who has one single unthinking battle plan then he'll do exceedingly well for you - and if your opponent moves well or you position him poorly then he's ineffective. Like the rest of the warhammer universe... mutable and full of parity!
Is he unbreakable?Is Grimgor Ironhide just too tough ?