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Do you think they'll change the rules for always strike first (ASF) in the next edition of WHFB??
As it stands at the moment if two units have ASF the order is determined by the intiative of the troops.
Not certain, but i think the rule used to be......... if both have ASF the charger hits 1st, if this doesn't apply then weapon rules (eg. double handed wpns strike last), then initiative.
Reason i ask is it would be great for orcs if they did. It would mean if you cast either the Waaagh! spell or Bash 'em Ladz we'd be hitting the high elves first. And alot of their elite units carry 2-H wpns.
Last edited by waylander2; November 10th, 2008 at 11:48.
Yeah, it would be cool if this happened, it was FAQ'd that the great weapons would strike after other ASF troops, but they changed it back quickly.
I wanted to bash the puny elveses like this:
6 wide, big uns, 2 choppas, banner of butchery. 19 attacks, hitting on 4s, RRing, wounding on 2s, no save (likely) ~= 10+ dead elfies! Take that, you pointy eared scum!
Yeah, ASF v's ASF is different this edition.
Page 94 BRB
How do we deal with the High Elves striking first? I have a seige game in a few weeks with DE ally against HE and Stunties. The only way I see getting to attack first is with Grimgore, but only if he isn't fighting a noble. He will definitely be in a Seige Tower with his large Black Orc bodyguards.
Chariots are very very good if you're looking to humble high elves. The impact hits will go before their precious ASF and are usually of such a strength that will wound them on 2s and negate their poor armour. Although... if there's Dwarfs on the table you could potentially be looking a worrying number of S7 bolt throwers.
Vs. Swordmasters, I wouldn't worry. While Swordmasters are very nasty in combat, they fall to shooting very quickly... something you should have a respectable amount of if you're tag-teamed with DE.
White Lions I place as the scariest infantry avalible to the HE. They have a soild save vs. shooting, S6 and stubborn meaning you're going to have to wipe them out barring some very bad luck on their part. I'd advocate chariots and multi-charges against them, if the dwarf element allows it. Maybe a chariot to blunten their fighting rank and something nice and hitty to do the real work- something like Boar Boyz or Corsairs.
Phoenix Guard aren't so offensive, their strength comes from being hard to kill themselves. I may throw a giant into the front and get some allied Cold One Knights into a flank next turn to break them.
Vs. Spearblocks, I should think you can just throw boyz at them... your T4 should see you surving as close to unscathed as makes no difference.
Their cavalry won't benifit so much from ASF, as it should be getting the charge anyway so deal with it as you would any army's heavy cav... Doomdivers!
If your ally has them... Hydras! Hydras are fantastic.
High Elves are tricky, they're the only army i've lost against. Grimgore would be good, he'd get a 50/50 roll to go 1st (but he'd go after pheonix guard and dragon princes) , and especially good if he's in a siege tower. Don't know the rules for them, but if they prevented all enemy missile fire that's perfect v's bolt throwers.
It's difficult to give tactical advice, i've never done a siege game with WHFB.
Odd as it sounds i find the magic phase is now a weakness of the High Elves. Not because they have rubbish spells, the reason is so many High Elf players are tempted by dragons. When they take up a Lord and Hero slot, they end up having only a few wizards. My HE opponent likes Khoril as well
I usually take out swordmasters with doom divers or rock lobbers, i've never beaten them in combat.
Try and charge spearmen in the flank, they are lethal v's orc boyz. I usually charge white lions with savage orcs, i've never lost against white lions yet, but i have heard people fear them.
Fanatics are good against them (maybe not in a siege) Orc chariots are good.
If you think he's going to take a dragon (most HE players do) then take an anti-dragon wyvern rider. This a Black Orc Lord (the reason he's a black orc is WS 7 makes alot of difference against HE princes) on a wyvern with effigy of mork, (this will mean if you get the charge he'll hit you 1st, you'll have the same WS and effigy, so he needs 5's to hit you) then any combination of weapons/armour. I like to have Armour of Gork
Hi WaRu ............ you mentioned impact hits go before ASF, i didn't think they did.
On page 63 of the rulebook;
"These hits are inflicted at the very beginning of the combat, even before challenges are declared and before any models get to attack."
Chariots love High Elves!
Last edited by Tak; November 6th, 2008 at 17:32.
(by the way, i hope you're right about this, it's better for orcs)
The way my High Elf opponent has always argued his case is;
regarding ASF, page 94 ........ "Models with this special rule ALWAYS strike first in close combat, even before models that have charged that turn."
So, the way i'd interpret that is chariots hit before any other model, apart from ASF models.
fingers crossed you're right, not me
You might be onto something there WaRu, i've just been reading posts in the high elf forum. They seem to think it's impact hits, then ASF as well. But they keep referring to a FAQ which overrides the BRB rules, that doesn't make any sense to me.