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  1. #1
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    Just A Few Gripes

    Alright I am new to Warhammer Fantasy, but I want to get this off my chest. What I want to complain about is this. I have four armies I am collecting. They are:
    Warriors of Chaos
    Bretonnia
    Dwarves
    Orcs and Goblins

    Alright Finer points:
    Warriors of Chaos: Are as powerful as youd expect. With their Marks, the 2 Atk Warriors w/ 4+ Armour Save, the powerful Knights, and great complimentary units, with arguably one of the best magic phases in the realm.
    Bretonnia: Knights, Knights, Knights, amazing plain and simple, with awesome bowmen to compliment.
    Dwarves: Solid Warriors, better special choices, with a powerful gunline, and awesome gyrocopter.
    Orcs and Goblins: What? Boyz that are no better than Marauders, Goblins that have to be taken at a minimum of 150pts, (including Fanatic) Their best punch usually dies long before they reach their target. (Black Orcs) Then they have Orc Boar Boyz who are great yet expensive. I just feel like they have missed the mark with the whole orcish theme. I know I'm going to get flamed for this but 40k had it, big groups of boyz with some great complimentary. Here I feel like Im taking 15 Boyz against usually 12 Dwarf Warriors, or 10 Chaos Warriors and it doesnt give me the satisfaction that I was expecting. Anyone else feel the same way? I guess I want to just overwhelm them with 10 squads of Boyz Screaming WAAAAAAGH! at the top of their lungs! Mabey just drop a toughness on the Boyz to 3 and them make them 4 or so points? Or is that just dumb. Thanks for letting me rant! WAAAAGH!

    Armies: 40k: Imperial Guard, Orks Fantasy: Skaven

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  3. #2
    Member valdrog's Avatar
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    O&G are underpowered right now compared to most armies out there, one thing i never understood is how come an Orc (insert GW description of musclebound brute) has the same strength as a goblin (insert GW description of scrawny weak runt) .

    NG/Gobbos are overpriced
    Little waagh is absurdly expensive
    Boar boys are stupid expensive
    Black orcs way to expensive - need some rules better than 'armed to the teeth'
    Gobbo characters are weak and should be 2 for 1 like before
    All our random stuff is bad for us, no good comes out of them.

    They need some love soon.

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    Sigh...

    Yeah, Orcs and Goblins sadly cannot be taken seriously. The missed the wagon of awesome buffs for the seventh edition. I also never understood how covered in muscles orcs are and yet have the same strength as a puny human. Especially when orcs fists are the size of human heads...

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    I personally love the O+G army! The only thing I would like to see changed is reduced cost on boar boyz/ savage orcs, maybe a heavy armor option for orc boyz and a redo of the whole black orc thing as they seem way underpowered, a 4+ armor save or 2 attacks minimm would be ideal. Other then that though I kick some chaos and Dark elf butt on too many occations to count. (Noting that I avoid all the units I have complaints about)

    Just some thoughts on others complaints:

    1. Goblins that have to be taken at a minimum of 150pts, (including Fanatic)

    Packing units full of 3 fanatics is rarely a good thing, in my opinion, 60 points for a block of 20 lil brats is a wonderful deal.

    2. NG/Gobbos are overpriced

    Pshhhh I think not. 3 points a piece and super fanatic carriers, what more could you want?

    3. one thing i never understood is how come an Orc (insert GW description of musclebound brute) has the same strength as a goblin (insert GW description of scrawny weak runt)

    You have to remember that you are getting a free +1 strength on the charge, and that can lead to a S5 hit if they are big 'uns and that is nice for a core unit.

    And I am not disagreeing with all of you, as I would not be posting in this thread if I did. The army definitely needs a looking over and my optomism towards them may be due to the fact that I also play ogres so to me O+G seem like a really good army. But I'll save those thoughts for another day .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zazzer View Post
    Especially when orcs fists are the size of human heads...
    And a head the size of an 'umies torso!

    I'd say your problem is that your units are too small. O&G win by force of numbers. Goblines should usually be taken in groups of 35+, fanatics are a must, orc boyz should be taken in groups of 20-30 or so, so they don't die first combat round. Black orcs are great on paper, but not so great on the field. Unless (like me) you just REALLY like the look of them, Id advise against taking them. Big 'unz are really good. For a few extra points, they get another point of strength, add to that double choppas, and 5 ranks of 7, on the charge, is 14 S5 attacks. Not bad for a core unit. Don't forget the uses of the core cavalry. They definitely can't take much on head to head (skaven ) but they sure as hell can side charge really well while the orcs are stuck in head on. Cheap, small groups of goblins, 20-25, in one or two ranks, with a musician, as a screen, when your enemy charges, they react with the flee choice, then the orcs/big 'unz behind them counter charge.

    Hope this helps!
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    ...

    Glad I'm not going insane and other people feel the same way. Just wanted to clarify on my point.
    Quote
    1. Goblins that have to be taken at a minimum of 150pts, (including Fanatic)

    Packing units full of 3 fanatics is rarely a good thing, in my opinion, 60 points for a block of 20 lil brats is a wonderful deal. Quote

    To make them combat effective that is putting 20 NG's with Full Command, 1 Fanatic, Netters, with spears. Which is so far the only way I have find that they last over one round of combat without running and screaming away. If I do take big blocks like you say going around 35 Gobbos and 25 Boyz that limits my # of units that I can take, which when I face Bretonnians, (my brothers and girlfriends armies) I am hit in the side by 5x Knights, 5x Knights, and 5x Knights. Usually one in front then flank then rear, slaughtering all my guys and them only losing 1 or 2 Knights of 15.

    My other complaint is Animosity. Every time I get my opponent lined up for the perfect charge they have animosity and sit there stupid.

    Alright Last thing I promise. Is this even possible. The beginning of the game we did a 600pt Bretonnia vs 850pt O&G. It was a scenario we were doing. I killed all of his guys exept 5x Knights Errant. I had his unit like this.

    GGGGG OO
    OKKKKKOO
    OBBBBBOO
    OBBBBBOO
    O
    O

    Alright G-Night Goblins 15x were left at this time w/ full command
    O is two groups of 12 boyz each, full command initially 18
    B is Black Orcs 10x
    K is his Knights Errant Full Command Erranty Banner

    In the round of combat he defeated my Black Orcs but they held, the orcs to the right fled, the left stayed and the night gobbos fled. next round he beat the black orcs again and my left orcs fled. leaving only my black orcs (5left) (he had all 5 knights left) He then a third time spanked my knights and they left. He beat me. Stupid Stupid Orcs

    Did we not figure in so many flank atks? How does he beat me? There has to be a rule against him beating me I shoulda crushed him.
    Armies: 40k: Imperial Guard, Orks Fantasy: Skaven

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    Quote Originally Posted by HAB_Incognito View Post
    GGGGG OO
    OKKKKKOO
    OBBBBBOO
    OBBBBBOO
    O
    O

    Alright G-Night Goblins 15x were left at this time w/ full command
    O is two groups of 12 boyz each, full command initially 18
    B is Black Orcs 10x
    K is his Knights Errant Full Command Erranty Banner

    In the round of combat he defeated my Black Orcs but they held, the orcs to the right fled, the left stayed and the night gobbos fled. next round he beat the black orcs again and my left orcs fled. leaving only my black orcs (5left) (he had all 5 knights left) He then a third time spanked my knights and they left. He beat me. Stupid Stupid Orcs

    Did we not figure in so many flank atks? How does he beat me? There has to be a rule against him beating me I shoulda crushed him.
    I don't know how you managed that. Flank bonuses don't stack but you should have had:

    rear +2
    flank +1
    outnumber +1
    rank +1

    already 5+, means the five knights killed 6 orcs and you killed none to lose combat by one?
    11x ws3 s3 attacks, hitting on 4+ and wounding on 5+, and you get full armour saves.
    I really don't see how that happened!


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    Senior Member DoctorDogmeat's Avatar
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    "Boyz that are no better than Marauders".

    Underestimating the value of t4 there, by a lot. Also the value of the choppa.

  10. #9
    Member valdrog's Avatar
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    If you are packing 150 points on a 20 strong NG unit, then thats your first mistake. If you are taking 20 NGs in a unit then just add a fanatic and a musc and use them to cover the flank of your big block.

    The way i normally play it is like this. 2-3 blocks of 35 NGs with spears, full comnd, netters, 2 fanatics, 2 blocks of 20 NGs with 1 fanatic each , short bows and a musc. Gobbos need numbers on their side to have any chance of winning.

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    I see...

    I see my problem, I did not stack bonuses...haha no wonder I lost a battle that couldnt be lost. O well. Still think the O&G have work to be done for me to be able to contest with them compared to Warriors of Chaos.
    Armies: 40k: Imperial Guard, Orks Fantasy: Skaven

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