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They don't count as a Hand weapon, why the heck not, there's no point in taking them.
Extra Hand Weapon vs Sword of Battle. Why would you pay 11 extra points for it? its actually WORSE even if they were the same since the extra weapon is a choppa(+1 str)
Great Weapon vs Sword of Might, 6 points more, lose 1 str (never mind the don't strike last)
I would understand them maybe on Gobbo Bosses since they get HWs and not Choppas, but even then they'd have too be alot less.
I think GW needs too redo the whole lineup, as none of the weapons are ever worth taking(the other basic magic items are fine)
Same thing, really. If you take a character on a Boar with a shield and the SoMight, you have the same thing as the same character but with a GW, but you get an increased armour save, and don't strike last.Great Weapon vs Sword of Might, 6 points more, lose 1 str (never mind the don't strike last)
Even on foot, if you want, say, a magic shield, and a cheap way to get that nifty S6, then that's how you do it.
Hope that answers your concern.
You can't use the Hand weapon and shield rule with magic weapons unless they also count as hand weapons, and unless you got a page number that proves me wrong, the basic (by Basic i mean ALL races get them) ones aren't, says so in the rules book, and everyone i played with last week.
As for the +1 str while mounted and not striking last, i'd rather just use a great weapon since a mounted char should get the charge anyhow, and there are still too many other magical weapons too pick from in the Orc list itself that are way better. My Point was they are almost compeltely useless as there are too many cheaper and Better choices
Edit: also a shield on a mounted char is basicaly just another armor point, you can't use HW/Shield while mounted either
What I was meaning is that you can use a shield, but you won't get the Parry bonus (the additional +1 save).
For example: Porko Bigboss has a SoBattle, shield, and a loincloth. In combat, he will get a 6+ save, as will be the case from shooting. (however, he'll still get the extra attack whether he's on foot or mounted)
Porki Justasbigboss has a choppa, shield, and a loincloth. From shooting, he will get a 6+ save, but in combat, that will be increased to 5+.
Porky Reallybigboss has a GW, shield, and a loincloth. From shooting, he will get a 6+ save, but none in combat. This is where the SoMight comes in. He can still get a high strength and an improved armour save in combat with the SoMight/shield combo.
Sorry 'bout miswording it before. And I don't doubt that there are superior weapons in the O&G army, I was just explaining why people actually use them (generally, I find the best characters are the ones that give a decent contribution to CRes for a low price, which is why I like the SoBattle/Might - I use Empire/OKs, mind).
That said, I think you are onto something. The Common Magic Weapons would become a lot more appealing if they became treated like hand weapons (though they'd be subject to abuse from the AHW rule).
not sure it matters what weapon you bring for the shield armor save bud, having the shield, even if strung over your back, still gives you the +1 armor save doesn't it?
IE: porky bigboss has 2 Chopa's, loincloth, and a Sheild. In combat he decides too use both Hand Weapons, unless i'm mistaken i always thought that the Shield'd Normal armor save is always available. My orcs Duel weild and my NGs have spears i don't really use the Rule(yet important too know)
Nah, sadly you drop all boni to do with shields if you duel-wield, as both your hands are taken up by the weapons.
I think I'll drop out of this thread now, as it's gone too far off topic.
I generaly use these items when I'm tight for points from other things and I just want a quick upgrade. Anyways as you said, it works for gobbos and many other armies out there so there is not that big a problem with it.
Hope what I've said might help somehow.
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There are somethings in the Warhammer world that can only be hurt by magic, or might not get a ward save if the attack is magical. It all depends on what you're doing, up against, etc. Sometimes, yes good ol' great weapon is the way to go, other times you need that magic sword of whatever. And some magic items I'm never ever going to use just because it's not worth it... to me. In the eye of the beholder and such.
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