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My question today is about the competitiveness of O&G in tournys. Now here in Australia, we have the comp system, and the next tourny I'll attend uses a 'tier' system, so VC's tier 1, Daemons tier 2, etc.
And then I find O&G at tier 7! Ranked as the 3rd weakest army! Thing is, I look at the O&G army and I see a mix of everything. Combat, magic, shooting, and CHEAP troops that are tough and can hit hard! It's like my Chaos army, but cheaper with shooting! Characters aren't that shabby, though other armies have better magic items, Orcs can still get very hitty, and the LD bonus and WAAAAHH bonus, as well as other things become very valuable.
So, what are the thoughts on this? Is this truely the case for a 7th edition book?
Let me start by saying, i think orcs and goblins have the greatest fluff xD definatly the toughest army when it comes to laughing and having a fun battle!
Nothing beats having a 50 point goblin chief beheading a dwarf general using a dagger also known as the strength 10 onehitwonder
Yes it is rather tier 7
Orcs can be quite good at things, but in the end, youl have to compare them to other armies. No matter what you will focus on, theres allways some other army better with it in tourny's
The main reason however is quite simple.
Orcs and Goblins are unpredictable.
In tournies, that will be your downfall almost every time. The more you have to roll dice to have effect, the bigger the chances youl have no effect at all. As Paint_Monkey said in his ng stratguide, Your tactics can be brilliant, things will not go your way, you can expect things to go wrong.
Animosity can shut you down (yes even with blackorcs in the ranks), low movement rolls on your fanatics, squighoppers and snotling carts, low impacthits on carts and fanatics or chariots.
there are no rerolls available for miscasts, misfires happen, we have a relative low leadership and even fear elves sometimes. Giants have utter random special attacks. So many things that can end up not going your way, even BEFORE you even know who you are fighting
Armies like deamons are completely immune to psychology, that gives them a huge advantage because it means they cannot fail any test like panic. They cannot lose the battle because of psychology.
Lizardmen are quite the same, because they get to roll 3 dice for every ldshp test and choose.
In a tourny you'l have to perform good every battle to reach the top. A good player will put his money on reliable armies, not on Orcs and Goblins.
Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs
There can be some very competitive builds though. I tend towards a magic heavy army with orc shamans to boost the orcs' innate strengths. Characters can be taken care of with itty rings and eadbutts and rerolls and asf never hurt anyone. Well, apart from the enemy but that's the point! A few big blocks of lads and you're well set. I'd be interested to try gorbad in this sort of army, though it would mean no great shaman.
What do the tier rankings actually mean?
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the tier rankings are set by some tournaments and are used to show which armies have advantages over others.
a tier 1 army should have little trouble winning of a tier 7 army.
So if you would fight yourself, and one of you will have a tier one armylist (like deamons)and the other has a tier 3 armylist. There is a good chance you will lose!... win, well the other one of you will not win maybe.
Tiers are to show the army books are not entirely balanced. Not meaning to offend to Games Workshop here, just stating the facts.
A bit like a level 10 character in a online rpg trying to fight a level 50
tier 1 is the toughest armies, they tend to score top in tournaments
tier 9 are the current weakest armies ( Ogre Kingdoms i believe)
Also AE is entirely right
some orc and goblin builds can be very tough. i think there are orcs and goblins with very high scores in grand tournaments and i think tier 7 would be a bit low for greenskins
Last edited by Digger; September 12th, 2009 at 01:24.
Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs