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If you have a solo slann with higher state of consciousness (immune to mundane attacks) and you moved to be over a mangler squig/fanatic whereby they do their 'force of destruction' (I think that's what it's called) and then die, they technically cannot do any damage to the slann right? And if I remember right the unit, in this case the slann, is allowed to finish its move in which case if you have lined it up properly you can take out another mangler squig/ fanatic, maybe even more if your lucky. Of course I would never do this in a friendly game but in a competitive setting why not?
Have I missed out something or is this really the case?
I agree. Best save those fans for other targets
So how would we be going about taking that fatty out?
i guess a solo fatty would not be much good in hand to hand against static combat resolution. In fact; using the big fat toad to run down fans may very well prove suicidal!
Warchief Diggah o da Bloodmoon Squiggahs
Well I myself am a humble lizard player and have from 6th edition only ever had the 'fatty' killed twice (not including self-destructing) once by that scroll that turns a wizard into a frog, really little change there, and had some ghastly unit come mop me up quite promptly. And the other time was one of the statistic defying leadership tests with a reroll on stubborn, and to add insult to injury the unit that caused my slann and temple guard to break was merely intended to be a speed bump. Anyway, so the question is 'how to kill the fatty', well lets have a look at the various kits a typical Lizardmen player would give his Slann:
Slann (Lore of Shadow)
- Disciplines - immune to mundane attacks, +1 dice to cast, Loremaster, Remove 6's from one enemy wizards casting attempts within 24"
- Divine plaque of protection (2++ save against all ranged attacks)
- Cupped hands of the old ones (give miscast to another on 2+, One use)
This is an extreme form of the kit for this slann usually people tend not to have 2++, immune to mundane attacks and bsb all on one Slann but lets discuss from this extreme version.
Tactics usually employed are: Slann successfully casts a spell and uses the Shadows special attribute to swap places with another model of the same unit type within 18", thanks to the slanns unit type being 'Infantry' that means any Saurus hero/lord, Skink hero/mage on foot... or another slann if the opponent felt it prudent to bring TWO. Another spell to be aware of is the 'steed of shadows' if the Slann found himself in a pickle he could use the steed of shadows THEN use the lore attribute to further the distance even more.
What I humbly suggest to best counter this Slann is:
Eliminate lone characters on foot with fast moving units to limit his options for teleporting, position combat units against units with characters in them so that if he decides to teleport into that unit you can quickly engage the unit though I don't see the Slann doing this if it knows the unit is about to be attacked or is already being attacked, night gobbos with fans and nets are ideal for this, though i'm no O&G player, reason I see this to be is that fans will soften the unit maybe take a rank or two off and night gobbos might be able to win through static combat resolution and extra wounds you cause, and you'll be able to mitigate some of the wounds you receive in turn with nets. Hopefully.
I know there are some gribbly spells in lore of shadows but I beseech thee to keep dispel dice for steed of shadows 'only', though importantly, when his options for teleporting are being handled or dealt with. If you can limit the movement of the slann by this you should be able to recognise this atleast a turn ahead and this should give you time to bring in a unit of say wolfs or spiders or something, anything really, to get into combat with the slann and make him run with static combat res and run him down.
Now the hard(er) one
Slann (Lore of Life)
- Cupped hands of the old ones
- Disciplines - +1 dice to cast, Loremaster, Remove 6's from one enemy wizards casting attempts within 24"
Accompanied by usually 20 Temple guard, FC, Iron curse (6++) for whole unit against warmachines.
Tactics employed by the slann are fairly point and click
Arguably the most brutal deathstar type unit when combined with various spells that will inevitably get through, Throne of vines means 4+ regen, T8 and get to resurrect D6+1 models not to mention stubborn leadership 9 rerolls or even 10 if the opponent included the standard of discipline. Do note though that when Throne of vines is cast any previous spells cast do not suddenly get the boost as in Flesh to Stone doesn't grant T8 if it has been cast before Throne of vines was in play, though the same is true if you dispel throne of vines the spells don't lose their potency.
So im going to attempt to present a solution to this unit:
If he is going to cast throne of vines I say let him cast it (you can always dispel it in your magic phase) 'if' certain criteria are met, 1: Magic phase generated an around average figure of PD, as in 6-8, or less is better, and the player is going to be throwing more then sufficient number of dice to cast it e.g. 3-4, 6 if your lucky, remembering while this is happening that he gets the +1 free dice for every attempt. 2: That your confident you can dispel any of those nasty spells that immediately occur after, a spell caddy is strongly advised, You probably don't need to worry too much about the Earth blood (5+/4+ regen) if you have a solid unit with banner of eternal flame even at range this is still viable (slap me if i'm wrong).
However Flesh to Stone and regrowth I would worry about. Of course there is always 'the dwellers below' spell but sacrifices must be made and if the player is casting it and you think you could gain a tactical advantage such as the opponent has sunk a lot of dice and neglected his unit buffs or that the opponent is trying to draw out your dispel dice in order to buff his units then i'd advise withholding your dispel dice. If worse comes to worse and your down to choosing whether to dispel flesh to stone or regrowth (if he has casualties, not just 1 or 2 though) i'd choose regrowth, T8 is a pain but regrowth takes a turn from you (turn of casualties).
Now with the flaming shooting unit, if thats the unit that has the banner, remember to shoot that unit first to bypass regen, then with any warmachines alive, if any shoot the crap out of the unit. And proceed to engage with melee in a subsequent turn when the unit is sufficiently depleted.
Now I know I use a lot of vague terms such as 'sufficiently' but its used appropriately as whatever models are left on your hands should be a good indicator as to whether the unit is sufficiently depleted. It's important to consider that lizardmen will try and kill your warmachines quickly through terradons/ chameleons skinks/ skirmisher skinks but these units die easily if in combat, wolfriders/ spider riders can keep up easily with most of these units especially if you know where the opponent is going, thats usually where the warmachines are.
You could also try the brute force approach with mangler squigs, fanatics, savage orcs, Blorcs etc etc but if this is the case don't let that T8 or regen (if flaming banner bearer isn't present) get through, its a crying shame when your beasts of destruction are wounding on 6's.
So If I can conclude this, prioritise dispelling attempts, don't fall for those scary spells, a lot of this is a mind game don't be scared to sacrifice if there is more to be gained, be wary that your opponent may realise what your doing and in one phase cast a spell which you let go because of prioritising then proceed not to cast anymore spells which could make you regret not having dispelled that, then in the following turn draw your dispel dice out with the spell you let go through the previous turn then proceed to casting all his spells.
OK I don't mean to come off as preachy but I have a splitting headache and would change the wording but can't be bothered haha asssss i've written way too much, thank you for reading my dribble and i'm sure its unfinished.
Anyone have stories to share about killing the 'fatty' or strategies/ tactics to do so? I would love to hear it as this will help me as a Lizard player. Ulterior motive much.
i do have a story- this was in 7th ed
i was watching a game of lizards vs VC's and a funny thing happened- the vc player charged his vampire knights into a units of skinks (or something like that...) killed them (as they used to do...) and overran into the slann unit with saurus bodyguards, this was said with the words "right i'll run them up the 'arse' of that bloody toad". They either hit them in the flank or front (this was quite a bit ago...) which was irrelevant as the vampire knights killed quite a few- enough to ensure no return hits then the slann as we said 'farted' and he and his unit ran off and got caught and wiped out.
funny really and it was all done with that 'British' quality of understatement- i have done that myself sometimes- we had a little laugh afterwards though.
the ony way to combat slann with O&G i can see is to try and target the unit with warmachines, and or magic- which is a bit hit and miss- other than that my tactic would be to be aggressive with a nasty unit (ahem grimgor/black orcs). Which should make the player deal with it or try to doge it (but beware- the hand of gork cometh- its funny to see grimgor and the immortulz 'teleport' behind a unit and the opposing player can do nothing about it)
of course with WOC watch out for the third eye of tzeentch as we can 'nick' ALL of the spells of your 'fatty' if my wiz is in line of sight- which could be a kick to the middle wicket if i then cast them, also watch out for the infernal puppet as i can muck around with miscast results- meaning that i can make the result 'better' for me or worse for you (its only +/- d3 on the miscast table but it helps).
as my example shows just be careful as you can get whacked by combat res if your opponent knows what he is doing...